Alright, listener, we're here with John. I'm really excited about this interview. He is a certified financial planner from the US that lives in Portugal. He knows both worlds. Hey, John, how's it going? Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for joining us on Let's Move to Portugal. I'm really excited about this episode because we get to dive into something that I'm personally excited about. I'm passionate about. It's interesting to me. I hope it's interesting to the listener. And most importantly, it's really important for people to be prepared for some of the things that we're going to discuss because we're talking about finances. We're talking about taxes. And some people might run and hide when you talk about finances and taxes, but it's really important when you're moving to another country to talk about these things. How about we start with tax implications living in Portugal from an American point of view, because most of our listeners are American and Kaylee and I are American. So I'm hoping that I'll glean something that will help us out. What are the tax implications of living in Portugal? Well, taxes are generally where everybody wants to start or they don't want to start. The people that I talk to are people that are sort of self-selecting. So they're actually going towards the things that they are the most afraid of, which is taxes. But the good news here, Josh, is that taxes are nothing to be afraid of because Portugal wants us here. So you're probably aware that there's the non-habitual residence tax status that we can claim if we're either retiring to Portugal or if we are engaged in some form of high value activity. So if you're a digital nomad, it's like probably the most popular group of people coming here, you're going to get to have NHR, non-habitual residency. And so you're basically going to just keep on behaving like you did back home because the United States is going to be with you for life. The US is one of, I think, two countries that follows you everywhere you go. So your filing requirements never change at all. So you're basically going to be taxed like an American because the NHR will cap you out at 10 or 20% flat on your global taxes. So you're basically going to be filing in Portugal and America every year, which is a pain in the butt, but you're not going to pay extra taxes. That's the thing that people get really concerned about. And your listeners can just sort of breathe this out of relief. You're not going to have to pay more. So you're not going to get double dipped. So you're not going to get double dipped. And why is that? Why is there no double dipping that people have to worry about? So the countries are working together. So you are going to be filing with both countries, but there is a tax treaty that exists between the two countries. And so the tax treaty, it allows the governments to keep us from evading taxes, but it is good. What it boils down to, the tax treaty says that the country in which you are currently residing in, which for most of us, once we become a tax resident of Portugal, is Portugal, they get to tax us first. And so then we pay our taxes in this country. And as I said, hopefully you're going to get that tax holiday of NHR. And so then you're going to pay your taxes at whatever level you pay. When you have the 10 or 20% cap, that's probably a little bit less than you pay in the United States. And then you file in the US. And then in the US, you're effectively going to file your return. And it says you owe the government X. And it's based on the same income that you reported to Portugal. But then you compare the two values. So if you paid $10,000 to the Portuguese government, and then the US government says that you owe $8,000, then you don't owe the US government anything, because you're going to get a credit for that 10,000. And that will credit against what you pay in the US. And since 8,000 is less than 10,000, you don't owe anything in the US. And in fact, you have 2,000 extra that you can roll over in the next year if you need to. But if you owe 12,000 in the US, then you're going to pay 2,000 to the US. So you're basically going to get topped up to whichever is the higher of the two. So it's a little bit more work. And especially like the first year, you should probably use a good tax lawyer here in Portugal and keep with somebody in the US that's not afraid to have someone international as a CPA. Yeah, just use professionals the first year for sure. And make sure that you see what they're doing. Yep. Right. And then it's cool. That's a great piece of advice. So let's talk a bit about how long that tax holiday is. And then we'll get into a little more nuance with the tax implications. For some people, retirees, I think it's much more straightforward. But I think there are some people now moving to Portugal with a job or as freelance workers that things could get a little murky. Like what do you mean? People that have their own company. Oh, OK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. 10 years on NHR. 10 years. 10 years flat. And one time only. Yeah. One time only. So and if you don't file for it, you could be totally iced out. Don't forget to file because the Portuguese government is for real with that. Like if you forget to file, you may miss out entirely, which is going to feel awful. Because if you're not on NHR, this is a socialist country. Right. And man, as much as we like to complain about taxes in the US, like they're paying top rates as soon as they make 75,000 euros. And that's 48 percent, man. Yeah. So it's a lot. Like twice as much. Like I have a tax calculator that I've designed for Americans and it shows you. So if you're making 200 grand, you know, US that you want to complain about is like thirty thousand dollars. In Portugal, you're paying like fifty five thousand euros. So you better sign up. Yeah. It's 10 years. Sign up by the end of March on the year after you take residency. Correct. Right. That's that's exactly right. OK. So people that have their own business and get paid by the business, I assume would pay their business taxes in the US and then whenever they take profit, that profit would be income and they would pay that in Portugal. How does that work? Man, you just went right into it, Josh. Like that's. Yes, sir. Yeah. We actually get this question quite a bit. So here's the thing. If you have an LLC structure, then things get a little interesting. And if you have a corporate structure, then they're a little bit less interesting, but they're still interesting because, yeah, like the Portuguese government or I guess the IRS here, which is confusing because it's also called the IRS, they can't see into the LLC. And so it's really important that you that you do things right, because, yeah, if you get the money in your LLC, you know, you make your money and you pay yourself from the LLC, it can be considered a dividend to the Portuguese IRS. And dividends are taxed less. They're actually taxed a lot less. So if you characterize it with your tax lawyer here as a dividend payment, it's going to get taxed at 0%. OK. So, yeah, I don't want to like misconstrue that because I'm not trying to tell everyone to go out and do that. They're just seeing it as a dividend, even though it's not. Right. Well, in the US, we look at the LLC structure as a pass through. OK. Which means that it's basically like the same as if you were just you with your LLC. Crazy. OK. And by the way, the US is still going to be taxing you at normal rates. So if you're paying zero to Portugal, you're paying US rates still. Right. But yeah, like the Portuguese don't see LLCs or personal trusts as the same as we do. They consider them to be a separate entity. So that's important to understand. OK, good. Yeah. That's wild. It is super wild. But here's the thing, though, like don't try to get into any monkey business or shenanigans with this because if you end up paying them nothing for a number of years, you're going to get audited. If you get audited and it's shown that you are just you and there's no one else on your LLC, they're going to say, well, that structure is kind of bogus and we're just going to tax you as you. But if it's a for real LLC with a partner back home, OK, then that changes things. So if it's like a multi-member LLC, then it's legit and you can just go about your business in the way that we just described. So, OK. Yeah. What about the foreign earned income exclusion? How does that work? And can you explain what foreign earned income exclusion is for the listener that doesn't know? Well, the foreign income exclusion is just the first thing that I mentioned, which is that you get an exclusion on all of your income that was already taxed here. So if you were already taxed on a hundred thousand dollars that you made in Portugal, you got taxed on it, then you could exclude that income on your tax return back in the United States. And so you're not going to get, you're not going to get, well, you get a full credit dollar for dollar on the income that you earned here in Portugal. OK. Shifting gears a bit, what's the best way someone should manage their money while they're living abroad? Same way. I mean, I'll tell you a story, actually. The first landlord that I had in Portugal was a financial advisor. And so I was like, Hey, what's up, bro? And he's like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, tell me about your business, man. Do you invest using like Portuguese resources? You invested the DAX, all these things. And he's like, what are you, stupid? I just invest in the US stock market. And if I can help it, I just use US custodians. So yeah, like every single thing that you know about investing as an American, do as much of that as you can, because the US markets are like the most heavily used or the most tested. There's the most money in it. So our consumer protections, rights and abilities as US investors are top notch. So that's what you should know is that just to the extent that you can, and there's a big asterisk I'm at, there's ways to mess this up. You got to keep using your US based system for investment, because the US is a really strong market. Okay. Are there any technical banking issues that people might run into though, living abroad? Well, there's like the reporting requirements. So like we said, the US has got you no matter where you go. So you have to, if you have $10,000 in the bank in the EU, you have to file what's called the FBAR form every year. And if you have $50,000 or more in assets, so that includes real estate in the EU, then you have to file what's called the FCAT form. And if you don't file those forms, it is crazy how expensive. Great penalty. Yeah. I mean, the penalties are so big. I think it's like 50% excise tax on the unreported values. Yeah. That's obnoxious. For a year? Yeah. For a year. So I met this international tax lawyer who had this crazy client who didn't report on a $4 million asset that he had. And he literally got a bill for $2 million from the IRS. Was he able to fight it? He did fight it, but I don't think successfully. Oh my goodness. Because the rules are pretty clear. If you have that kind of money and you're running around- You shouldn't owe. Yeah. If you have that kind of money and you don't have someone like me helping you, come on. So yeah, that's the thing. You got to file home your FBAR and your FCAT. And then some custodians won't have anything to do with you if you live abroad. So like- Okay. I mean, I'll name names. Some of the big ones, yeah. Yeah. Like Vandars? Yeah. No, thanks. I think Fidelity is not too keen on Europe. Because Europe has gone toe to toe with Google. Like their, what is it? GDPR? Right. Like GDPR is serious. They don't want certain kinds of information to be collected on people. And so once you're residents of the EU, you're going to have all of these issues that your home custodian is going to have to deal with. So you can only work with a couple of custodians freely. Okay. Is Charles Schwab one of those? In fifth? Schwab's a good one. Right. Yeah. I use Charles Schwab. I also use interactive brokers. Interactive brokers. And there's a couple of other backups to the backups that I keep just in case things goes out, because they do sometimes. It's good to have redundancies. So where do you sit on whether or not somebody should convert all of their dollars into euros whenever they move? Well, first of all, like a lot of people, they don't know how long they're going to be here. That's the first question I ask anytime somebody contacts me. I'm like, are you going to be here for a year or five years? You're going to be here for your whole life? Because if you're not going to be here forever, of course, you don't make all these radical decisions. But then when it comes to like fluctuations in forex, in exchange rates, that's tough. It's kind of like reading the stock market, right? Because it's inherently unpredictable. My best recommendation is always just to keep a year's worth of living expenses in euros if you're living in the eurozone, and the rest of your money, probably keep at home for the reasons I mentioned before. With interest rates going up with the Fed, you can get a pretty good rate on cash in the US now. So if you can get a five and a half percent on a six month T-bill, and you get like two percent here still in the banks, then it's really still not better to take the money over into euros unless you know something about the next year. Good point. Like with stocks, do you know what the stock market's going to do in a month? I sure don't. I wish that crystal ball would look into it. Yeah, did you ever see Back to the Future 2? If I had like the sports almanac for the stock market for like a week, yes please. So forex works the same way. Of course, like last year when there was parity, I did make a special call to all my clients and said, let's move over like a bunch of money. Because this is- It was historic. It was historic. Like not since the euro was introduced did we have that exchange rate. One to one. Yeah. Yeah. So for everybody else though, it's just a guessing game. So you should probably keep your deep stores of cash where they can do the best good for you, which is either in US cash products or the US stock market. Because the US stock market's generally a little bit of a safer bet, the EU one. Right on. You touched on a very good number for us to look at, which is one year's living expenses. So I want to ask you a personal question. What do you think one year's living expenses is in Lisbon? Oof, that's tough. I know lifestyles vary, which is why it's tough. But what do you think is like a good average from the clients that you work with? Well, I have three children, so that immediately throws me into an uncomfortable zone with spending. As in spending more than you would like? Oh yeah. I mean- International schools? I'm getting off the international schools. Okay. I feel super proud that like, my Portuguese has a Portuguese accent, Lisbon. Yeah. That's right. But seriously, like the international schools are expensive. So if you're going to move to Lisbon, like you're going to be spending a lot of money, unfortunately, because the property markets, you talked about this on some of your other YouTube shows, it's really high to live here now. Yeah. So you're probably going to need, some people are going to hate me, but like you're going to need like $4,000 a month, $5,000 to live a decent life in Lisbon proper. And I know that Porto is a little bit less, but it's not like five years ago, even super cheap. So probably 60, 70, $80,000 a year. Yeah. Kaylee and I feel like a good number, at least up in the north would be $2,500 to $3,000 for a couple. Right. I mean, that's us. Yeah. You guys are in the zone. Okay. That said though, if you get outside of Lisbon, if you want to live in Sissimbura, which I would be fine with, because it's gorgeous, or the Altejo, you're fine with probably like $2,000 a month, which is most people on social security, right? Easily. You could do it on a smaller budget. You don't have to have three kids and come right into the middle of Lisbon, Portugal in 2023. So it's a range. You just brought up social security. So we need to touch on this for those retirees out there on social security and or that have a pension from their company back in the States. What are some of the tax implications on that? Because it's different. Yeah? It's different. It's different, but it's good. I mean, again, like the NHR tax holiday, it was kind of designed for the retiree. It had the retiree in mind. So you're going to pay a flat 10% on your social security income for those 10 years. Okay. It used to be zero, right? Yeah, it used to be zero, but they changed it. 2020, I think is when they changed it. People that were filed before 2020, I think they got grandfathered in. So people have to pay in the US, they'll have to pay taxes first on social security, and then they'll get taxed again in Portugal. Correct. Correct. Okay. So that's something that the listeners should know that there is in this case a double taxation because your money gets taxed straight away in the US on your social security. What about on other retirement incomes? Non-government based. Yeah. So that's where it gets interesting from a financial planning standpoint, right? So I do that for a living. So I got to have solutions for that. So if you're getting a pension, a pension is going to be taxed in pretty much the same way, except there's not withholding. So you're not going to pay at home first. Great. So your pension money comes to whatever $1,000 a month, and then the Portuguese government will assess that 10% at the end of the year, or when you file your taxes. IRAs and Roth IRAs, and really every form of retirement account is going to be treated the same way. So it's a foreign pension in the eyes of the Portuguese government. So that's 10%, 10%, 10%. The IRAs, what's interesting is, is if you're retirement age in the US, you've been collecting money and your 401k, 403b, whatever, usually you have a pretty good amount saved up there. And the really interesting thing I've noticed as a planner is, most people tend to retire at 60, and then they have a couple hundred grand maybe, or maybe more, and then they wait until they're 71, which has been my approach my whole career so far. As a financial planner, I'm like, why would you pay taxes until you have to? But now you're going to let your account balance grow, and then you're going to take that money, what, 10 years later. You see, the problem is, if you're like $500,000 becomes a million, and now you're taking required minimum distributions at exactly the moment, you're going to have to start paying 40% on every dollar. Yeah, that sucks. So when I do my tax planning for people, I'm like, maybe we should take the air out of the bag now. If you let that money grow, you talk about some guy that saved a million dollars, and he's got 2 million in 10 years, right when it counts, he's going to get sucker punched. It's like the government's going to force you to take four, then five, then six, then 7% out of your account every year. So now you're going to face a crazy escalation in costs. So that's a curious one. Then I'm like, well, let's accelerate the payments early out of your IRAs. And this is exactly why people should have someone like you that sees this five, 10 years out, because I would not have even thought about that. Well, people's eyes bug out. Yeah. I show them a picture and I'm like, here's your money growing. You with me so far? Awesome. Yeah. And here's your money getting taxed at 50%. How do you like your socialized healthcare now? I mean, I like it. I'm not trying to take sides on the question of universal healthcare. Sure. And I'm like, that's what you're paying for. So let's just stack the cards correctly because you got time. That's the beauty thing is, is if you have 10 years to not get taxed like that, you have time to actually do some prep work. Okay. Right on. Any other things that would help out someone that is close to retirement age, looking to move to Portugal, a consideration they need to have both now and in 10 years? There's so many things that planners do, right? We talk about estate planning, we talk about healthcare, we talk about insurance. I mentioned the big one right off because that is a big sinker. If you don't learn about how you're going to get taxed heavily on all of your sources of retirement funding in 10 years, that's the big one. We can talk about health insurance because people are surprised when they file for Medicare and they take the extra add-ons, the Part B and Part C, the supplementals to standard Medicare. Some people are surprised that it doesn't matter here. It's basically wasted. If you file for Medicare and you should, and then you file for the supplemental, then you're paying a lot every month for something which is essentially going to be wasted because Medicare does not extend to international care. Once you become a resident here, you get on the national system, right? It's all the same. Yeah. How soon does that happen, Josh? Immediately? Yeah. I was so surprised. I was like, oh, so what do we have to do? They're like, and there you go. It's been done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. And their healthcare system is quite good. If the listeners have any doubt about whether the healthcare system is excellent, as far as if you're healthy, their preventative care is every bit as good as my family has experienced in the States. It's good. Cool. Okay. So jumping back to this idea of a retiree, have you noticed any institutions in Portugal that require people to have their retirement income placed directly into Portuguese banks? Is that a thing? You mean to like satisfy some immigration requirement? Yeah. Or can you selectively move money over? I'm curious about what you're thinking with that. So Kaylee and I haven't run into this issue because we're not at that point in our life yet, but we've heard that some banks here in Portugal, if you're moving as a retiree, they'll want you to show that you're going to be able to directly move money from your retirement accounts into Portugal on a monthly basis. I've seen that people need to have a balance here that shows that they can substantiate their rent payment. I forget what the value is, but it's like, they have to show they have six months of living expenses in that account. And it is easy to move money here. If your listeners needed to figure out how that works, we could talk about that because it's not hard to move money. Your Portuguese bank account, it can be hard to get the account opened in the first place. Right. Before we jump into that, on the front end of just being here in Portugal and having your accounts in the US open, have you run into any issues of accessing your money back in the States? Because we run into this issue all the time. We have two banks that require us, I'm going to name them, Bank of America and Wells Fargo. Uh-huh. But they require us to do a two-factor authentication using a US phone number. Uh-huh. Well, we've gotten rid of our US phone numbers a long time ago. Yeah. So having a workaround for that just doesn't make sense for us. So our workaround is having a family member that can receive that code for us to then access our online banking. Okay. Have you run into this? My clients haven't run into it. I haven't run into it. Okay. I use USAA because our family's been in the military. It's awesome. It works just fine. I mean, I use a virtual mailbox and I can get checks in the US and scan them with my USAA app. And it's just like, yeah, boop. Like, yes, I love living in the 21st century, but I also kept my phone service so I can do the two-factor authentication. Yeah. But I can't remember who's forced me to do it. There's some people that have forced me to do it. But no, I always tell my clients to keep their banking relationships open in the beginning at least so that they can continue to keep the stream of payments open. But yeah, I know that some institutions are going to have a hard time with you being abroad. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's definitely what we've noticed. We've had the easiest time with like a regional credit union that is super up-to-date on their kind of FemTech, which has been brilliant. And I think we're going to try to do a little more business with them, which is a purpose of the trip that we're on right now back in the States. Okay. So what's your preferred method of transferring cash, USD and Euro? Well, I use Revolut. I've used TransferWise too. So for like just regular monthly stuff, those guys, they've got it really worked out. But for people that are doing larger amounts of money, what I have actually found over the last several months is you can use transfer agents. But there's a company called SpartanFX. Yeah. We just use them. Yeah. Whoa. Like I, as an American, didn't even think this sort of thing could ever exist to be necessary. I know. It's so bespoke and comfortable to do it, isn't it? Yeah. I'm like, oh, wow, this is exactly how I always wanted it to work. But I didn't think you could do it like this because you send a massive wire from USAA to your Portuguese account and you're like, is it going to get there? Yeah. And if you screw something up, it could end up not getting to your account. You just send $100,000. No. So I'm like, yeah, SpartanFX, sure. I would love to have somebody just like, you know, they handhold the whole process. Yeah. So that's nice. Well, we had our hands held. Let me let me tell you. So Kaylee and I are getting ready to purchase a property in Porto and we needed to move a big sum of money over just to do the CPCB, which is like the security deposit. Right. The first step of closing the property. And yeah, we spoke to our agent, Ben, and he helped us. Wait a minute. Ben, how do you say his last name? Amaret? Yeah, it's an A. He starts with an A. Yeah. There's a lot of vowels in there. But yeah, I think it's Amaret. I'm going to go on record. Ben Amaret and he's the man. I couldn't believe it. Yeah. So, I mean, I've spoken to him like on FaceTime or WhatsApp or whatever. Right. But whenever I wanted to transfer the money, I just pinged him a message on WhatsApp and I said, I think we're ready. The rates were good, like the USD to Euro conversion. And he's like, well, just whenever you're ready, just give me the signal. He's like, I'll just transfer it for you. I could have gone into the platform and moved it myself. Yeah. But he's like, whenever you're ready, I'll just do it for you. And I was like, no, we're ready. He's like, OK, done. And then I got an email like moments later and it showed me exactly what was done. When we jumped on a call, he told me what the rates were. And he's like, look, it changes every minute or whatever. Right. But more or less, this is what we're seeing. It was amazing. So they're currency nerds. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. They'll save you a lot of money because their transfer rates are almost nothing. Like I had a client who was transferring money to my house and again, been to the rescue because like the rates were kind of crappy for a few days. OK. And so SpartanFX let them keep it on their platform in USD until the rates kind of bumped up a little and then they moved the money for him. And it was like, OK. Right. Yeah. Ben was telling me, yeah, if you have USD parked in an account there and you say when it hits X rate, I want you to transfer it. And it does it. Yeah. Is that what you're talking about? That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I had no idea that you were going to bring up SpartanFX. OK, cool. SpartanFX, man. I mean, it's funny how the world is, right? Yeah. We're plugging them. No, but like the SpartanFX thing was mind blowing because I was like, you know, as an American, I'm just used to like using the automated systems, la la la la la. But like, if you do that, you can end up paying a ton of money. Like I was doing international wires from, from USA. Love them. But they were charging me like $50 a pop. And I don't love that. And their rates weren't spectacular. And then your money disappears for two days. And you're doing big chunks of money and you're like, that's a lot of money to just vanish off the planet. And they can't tell you anything. Yeah. Like a blackout could happen or a solar flare and all your money's gone. Yeah. So yeah. So that's an interesting thing. So yeah. So SpartanFX, transfer wise, Revolute. I don't really need anything other than those right now. But that's a lot of good options. We have a couple of friends who use Revolute mainly for small transfers or almost like Venmo or Zelle to send money between other account holders. We personally use transfer wise. We've used them for, for quite some time. Used to use currency fare. So we've kind of hopped around, but SpartanFX, once we heard about how they do bigger transfers and can save you even more than a Revolute or transfer wise can, we decided for the big money moves, things over 10K, we'll just start using SpartanFX. Yeah. So I mean, plus doesn't it feel cool? Like they've got that great British accent too. And they're like, Oh, well, yeah, of course we must be doing things, you know, properly. Okay. Let's touch base. Last topic on estate planning. Yeah. How's the state planning done both in Portugal and in the U S like, what are some recommendations that you have for that? This is interesting. So the Portuguese don't charge a death tax or whatever you want to call it in the U S right. So like some Europeans actually move here. Again, I love everybody, but there's a lot of friends here that I've been told that they're like, let's move our money here for a while, you know, until the next generation takes hold. Cause there's not a death tax here. Yeah. So that's the thing. So there's not going to be a state tax in the sense that we think of it as, although in the United States, there's still an exemption that exists. And I, I forget what the value is right now, but I think it's like an $11 million exemption in the United States. So if you have less than that amount of money, you're also not paying for the turnover. Now, as far as the way that the trust is set up, the U S is actually not a part of the Hague convention. They're on a different system than Europe is. And that's why they don't look at the trusts in the United States the same way. Right. So like I had an Italian client who was like, my lawyer says, we got to set my trust up totally differently now that we're in Europe. And that is right. Okay. So when you're here, you should actually meet with a local estate planning attorney and either, you know, devise a new will because they don't do personal trusts in the sense that we think of them in the States. They, they kind of don't trust the trust. Okay. Oh, you guys just use those to get around taxes, huh? And I'm like, not really. And they're like, oh, we don't have anything against the idea of getting around taxes, but we don't use trust. So you just basically write a will that says, follow the U S trusts rules. Okay. That's really it. Like you just have to design a very simple will, which should be next to no money that just says, just follow all of the rules back home. Okay. Because if you don't do that, well then you know what could happen is, is you and Kaylee get, well, I won't use you. I said, oh, someone gets hit by a truck. Yeah. And then like your family's got to like come to Europe to probate, to like deal with the will because you didn't set that little rule up. So you just want to set a little rule up that says, follow what we set up back at home. Okay. And you should be fine. John, if people are interested in learning more about your services and what, what do you do for people as well? What do you do for clients? Well, I got into this business because I just really love the role that money plays in the world. It's always fascinating. It's always changing. Um, and so I deal with all of that chaos or individuals. Okay. You know, I'm a certified financial planner and so a CFP has to have expertise, not just on investments, which I do, but I also talk about all those other things we talked about and I make sure that everything knits together nicely. You know, I'm kind of like a personal organizer or a concierge. And so I do a full financial plan. It's like a general workup of your money. And I just validate that you're doing things right. And then I fill in gaps for you're not doing things right. Um, and then on an ongoing basis, I keep at the knitting because, you know, you'd be surprised how many people are messing up on one of these columns. Like they don't like to look at investments. They're not investing their money because they're afraid the stock markets always go lose the money. So I like show them educationally, like here's how index funds work. Yeah. Here's how historically stocks do. You know, cause people have all these preconceptions. It's wild. Yeah. God, there was a guy who had a million dollars in cash for like five years and it was like 2016 and he's like, I'm just waiting for the market to go down. And I'm like, I got news for you. None of us knows when that's going to happen. You should just have some S and P 500. So I kind of like educate people and help them to do investing or like people don't have any insurance. Right. So I'll do a life insurance analysis of a luck. I'm glad that you make $500,000 a year, but you only have a million dollars saved, which seems like a lot. But like, if your kids need to go to college, not enough money there. So let's get a life insurance policy. So like all of the things. So when you get a full workup done by a CFP touches on all those aspects. But then when I got thrown here during the pandemic, now I have a global financial planning designation as well. So we do that same plan, but then we take it up to that level and go like, okay, now you're moving to Europe. What else do we have to think about? It's mostly cashflow analysis and showing them that like, yeah, you're right on track, but yeah, I'll do a few things. Or for some Americans that are like, I'm sick of living in the U S I'm just going to pull up stakes and move to Portugal. I'm Ted. I've had that guy. And I'm like, okay, well hold on a second, pal. Like, let's just address some things. And so then we, we give treatment to that. Okay. And that's a cool job. Yeah. It's a lot of things going on. What do you charge for your services? And are there minimums that people need to have in terms of assets to work with you? So in the old days I was just assets under management, which means I charge 1% to do everything. Okay. And that 1% is assessed against your asset base that I actually manage. Okay. And I still do that. So I watched the markets every single day. And since we're eight hours ahead of it now, I do that. I re I wake up and watch, watch the wall street journal and look at the banks and look at all the things happening and take action. Okay. That's one, one business that I do is I manage the money and then I do all of the concierge work. But nowadays I also do like a financial planning engagement package, which is like, I'll have people pay me a one-time fee just to make sure that they're doing this global financial planning correctly. Cause a lot of people are like, eh, I understand that you could do investing better than me, but that's a lot. So let's just do a one-time engagement. And so that's just like 500 bucks. And I'll, I'll spend a few hours addressing you and giving you a blueprint for you. And then you could decide if you want to hire me for good. Okay. But I feel like that's reasonable because yeah, I mean, it's super high intensity to get a financial plan done. Sure. And then, you know, if you, if you like me, uh, then you can bring me on to the team. Cool. I think Kaylee and I might, might take you up on that. John, since you're here in Portugal, I've got to ask you the question at expats of where we believe that living abroad transforms lives. How has living abroad transformed your life? Oh, well, you know, we don't have to worry about school shootings and we all speak Portuguese and, uh, we, uh, we not order a proper coffee. It's been beautiful really. Uh, and we look at the United States in a different way, not worse. I was kind of joking about the issues, but like living abroad has afforded us an opportunity to see how the world sees us and they, they love us, but they've also got some unique issues, um, that have been really good to get clued into and to have my kids see. So, you know, just being more worldly, it can't hurt. Yeah, that's totally fair. I think Kaylee and I feel that as well. We we've grown to know what we really love about the U S but also what we really need fixed about the U S because we've seen the U S through other countries eyes as we've lived in five different countries abroad. So really interesting answer there. Thanks, Sean. Perspective, man. Fun. Thank you so much for meeting with expats everywhere. Let's move to Portugal. We appreciate it. All right, let's move to Portugal. It was great being on the show. Thanks a lot, Josh. Thank you.