04:11.30
Kalie
well Hannah. Thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today how you doing I'm doing all right? So you've kind of.

04:13.35
Hana
Thanks.

04:20.70
Hana
Doing good. How about you Thanks for having me.

04:27.79
Kalie
Recently moved Portugal How long have you been here.

04:30.90
Hana
Ah, it's been since October so what is that like nine months ten months last yeah

04:34.66
Kalie
Okay, so still under a year. Yeah, still under a year and you had a bit of a bumpy start. Do you want to tell our listener kind of what happened with your start.

04:45.71
Hana
Yeah, sure. Um, so there were a few things going on so we were moving here with our baby who was like five months old so that in itself was challenging. Um, and when we got here we had our apartment you know ready? As for the visa you need the apartment before you arrive. Um, everything was great when we got there. The landlord was nice like everything was under the right intentions but the apartment just ended up not working out because they had kept it skilled for like four months so through the humid summer and we had just thought that ah airing it out would make it. Like habitable but um with the bb there were like a few other smells and things that just kind of came up that we felt it was not safe for for her so we ended up kind of going to an airbnb and and moving actually a few times before we ended up where we are now. Um. So that that was one of the challenges but we also had a few other ones that I'm sure we'll get into.

05:42.41
Kalie
Yeah, okay, so so the main 1 at first was housing because you you did a lot of your your homework your due diligence and you found a great place that would work for you and your family but then it was just odd they they closed everything up and you when you arrived it. It just smelled like mold and was. Stinking stuff right.

06:01.96
Hana
Yeah I was just overpowering. The furniture was super old I think they were using it kind of as like a storage place for their mother's furniture and um. They had also like not stored the fridge properly so there was like chemicals leaking from the appliances that was kind of like the straw that for Camel spec.

06:18.60
Kalie
Yeah, okay, so for people who might be put in the same situation. How did you handle it. What did you do.

06:27.39
Hana
Um, well I think my husband and I really balance each other out with that stuff I'm definitely like a bulldog and he's more like let's take a minute and see how we can like approach this the right way because you know we didn't know the culture Yet. We didn't really know like the proper way to engage with people that was like professional. But also like making sure that we were protected so we started by talking to them a few times and it was like very formal. Um, but then when we realized that I wouldn't say that they didn't want to fix it I think it was just more They didn't know how and they didn't know how to do it in a timeline that we needed to be able to like move in with our child. Um, we just kind of said like hey this isn't going to work. You know what are the next steps if if we feel that we need to leave this apartment or or get out of this lease and um, we worked that out with the the real estate agent and there were a few bumps like it wasn't. So Clean cut. But in the end we did get like most of our money back for the situation and um, yeah I think just it was very overwhelming at the time but in hindsight I I think we did the best that we were able to do so.

07:31.72
Kalie
Now Would you have handled it the same way if it was just you and your husband and you didn't have a young child or um, would you have tried to tough it out I guess a little bit or it was just so bad and that you just would have you know wanted to get out either way.

07:43.21
Hana
Yeah I think actually with the baby is like more of like I would have tried to tough it out because I didn't want to move like I wanted to be able to like settle her in right Away. Um, but yeah I think either way I think it was for both of us. It was just. Too Strong. So um, think getting into the airbnb was like the best that we could have done like we were still dealing with like baby sleep struggles and all that kind of stuff so still very much like sleep deprived through all of this. So Maybe like if it was just my husband and I we would have. And able to like take our time to think about our next move a little bit more but I felt like we didn't have the time because I just wanted to get settled.

08:20.63
Kalie
Yeah, and so you bounced around a little bit did that change anything or make you nervous for your Ceph appointment.

08:30.29
Hana
It did um I was worried that like not having a le or changing our lease in our address was going to impact it I did actually email the officer or I guess that's the word of the person that had helped us in Newark she was the one that like did our application and she said ah. Would be totally fine. Don't worry about it I am someone who tends to worry about things before they're actually problems. But I think having that email from her in writing gave me the peace of mind that it was okay to like move. So um, here in in Porto.

08:58.15
Kalie
And what was your self appointment like yeah, the in person 1

09:06.24
Hana
Yeah, so that was actually recent so we were here quite a while before our appointment. Um I think overall it was pretty straightforward I think we had a lot of people here that we were able to talk to and and find out what we needed to bring and I think it does differ for each location and you know everyone's circumstance I would say just just make sure you were like overprepared. That appointment. Um it was. It was difficult because it was right during meka nap so that was very that's bit annoying. But um, you know it's it's 1 hard day and and you get through it. So no, not at all. No.

09:28.79
Kalie
Of course. Did they ask about the lease or say anything about the address change. They didn't at all, you just submitted a new lease and that was good.

09:43.51
Hana
Yeah, new lease. Um, that was like a little challenging too like to get our lease when we moved into this new place. But ah, you know we told them like the importance of having it and we also went to the punta for Gucia I don't know if that's yeah, yeah, so just having that I think also was like okay, we're good.

09:57.80
Kalie
Fragacia.

10:01.59
Hana
Um, so they didn't really but specify if it was required or not but they they took it. So yeah.

10:08.32
Kalie
Okay, yeah, great. Okay, so some people must have thought you are a bit crazy for ah, moving to porch goal with ah Miko was five months when you moved okay, did people think you were crazy friends family.

10:15.94
Hana
Yeah, she was 5 mental. Yeah I mean look everyone thinks we're crazy because we actually lived abroad for our entire adult lives. We've been abroad since 2013 and we had moved back like just before the pandemic started coincidentally. And Mika was born 2021 um, at the time you were like still debating. Maybe we'll stay in the states and make it work but we had always known that we were going to go abroad. So I think our families were like hoping that when she was born we were Goingnna stick around and when we considered it. But um.

10:52.33
Hana
The end of the day nobody was really shocked. Um I think I think my my grandmother did say to me like why don't you wait another year. Um, get through the first year and then go and she always tends to be like right about those kind of things and I always wonder like yeah maybe if we had waited a year it wouldn't have like been so stressful. But.

11:08.62
Kalie
Yeah, but you did and you're here. So for our listener where else have you lived? Besides obviously now you're in Portugal you're from the us and you were there for a little bit where were you before that.

11:11.46
Hana
Yeah, yeah, see.

11:20.14
Hana
Ah, so we lived in Mexico for almost four years um and before that South Korea so it actually working backwards. We went to Korea after college we were there for a year and half moved to Mexico for six months then went back to Korea for like 2 almost. 2 years and then back to Mexico up until right before the pandemic. So a lot of back and forth. So if anything they thought we were crazy that yeah yeah, well we always wanted to move to Spain actually so that was that is our ultimate goal.

11:43.70
Kalie
They just back and forth between two very different places. So then why portugal.

11:56.70
Hana
Um, we had explored moving to plain since like 13 but there was always like ah a reason we couldn't move like a financial reason or something like that and then when we realized that Portugal had opened the d 7 um and we did the research we realized like this would be like a great seway to getting to Spain. Ah, we still had spoken to spanish lawyers and just to see how that transition would be um and at the end of the day we like wanted to live in Europe so you know being honest like Portugal is not like you know our number 1 choice but due to its proximity to Spain and being in Europe like. Really couldn't think it like a better place and and now that we've been through this hard year I'm like I'm glad we made the choice.

12:39.46
Kalie
Yeah, so then are you planning on leaving for Spain soon or has Portugal won your heart over a little bit. You'll stick around for a little longer.

12:48.98
Hana
We are sticking around. So um, Spain did announce like a digital nomad visa so we were looking into that we still are um but when we realized what it was going to take to move like it would have been like this summer essentially um it was going to just be really really hard. Um with the baby like we had. We have just finally like settled in we know where she's going to daycare in the fall and I'm like have a break or like do this for one more year before we get that break again and and we ultimately decided we we need to stick around. So. In that sense it has won our heart for sure.

13:25.84
Kalie
Ah, okay, great and we'll chat a bit about daycare and some baby stuff soon. But before that um I wanted to ask so you came in on the d 7 but you are a remote worker or a freelancer so now with the shift it would it would most likely be like the d 8 right? You were kind of right before that. That new visa came out.

13:45.10
Hana
Yeah, yeah, it was funny actually when we applied for our um visa which which you helped us with you and Josh um, we were told at our appointment that like. Oh hey I don't know if this is going to go through because the remote working bees is about to come out. Um, and I was kind of surprised because I was like it's it's so interesting. What I do because I'm I'm a freelance writer but I have my own business. So I'm able to kind of like ah. Utilize that in whatever way, kind of made sense for the visa and I was kind of looking for her to like you know, guide us through it like if we had to change anything in our application. But at the end of the day I think it's just kind of like semantics. You know? Um, but I think at this point you might have actually been harder because I'm not really a remote worker.

14:25.97
Kalie
Yeah, yeah.

14:32.70
Hana
So yeah, yeah.

14:34.13
Kalie
Yeah, so you got in in a good time but now it seems like they they're ah they're getting a little better at processing those between the d 7 and d eight you know remote worker and passive versus active. But you you were right in that spot where I think a lot of consulates. Um, you know weren't quite sure what it looked like.

14:42.37
Hana
Um, yeah.

14:48.53
Hana
Yeah, which is also why I'm glad like we didn't wait a year to come because I wonder if that would have been more challenging for us. Yeah.

14:50.47
Kalie
Yeah.

14:59.12
Kalie
Yeah, definitely. Okay, so we get a lot of families. Ah that write us and ask questions about kids and you moved with a five month old um, what was it like with the initial move. How were people with babies in Portugal like what were your just your initial thoughts when you first moved and were experiencing the country.

15:18.44
Hana
Well I think things I thought things were going to be a lot easier I think due to our experience abroad I had assumed like whatever challenges would come up. We would easily be able to like figure it out. Um, so like. Just to back up a bit like you know we we had the plan we had to get her passport all that stuff like we had this timeline already kind of set you know before she was even born. Um, and the reason we chose to combat five months was because they don't get any vaccines between four and six months so I figured that would buy us enough time to figure that out. Just being like the worried parent I am I was like I really want to make sure that she's not missing any of her shots. Um, when we got here that was like so not the case like it was not easy at all. It was extremely difficult to navigate the public health system. Um, even though we knew what we had to do it. Didn't work that way. Um, and I remember someone telling me like the p for Portugal stands for patients I don't know where I heard that but I was like I think again in my mind I was like well I lived in Latin America like I lived in Mexico like things are kind of laid back there too. You know, but um, so different I mean we were able to get our visa there in thirty days you know versus here it takes months. So um, that patience I mean that that's it takes like 5 tries to get something done. So.

16:39.85
Kalie
Yeah, okay so you got here Miko was around five months and you started looking um for the public did you look into private health care or just the public.

16:46.40
Hana
Yeah, that was actually like 1 of our first moves. So I don't remember the order of things exactly but we did go to a hospital or several clinics or whatever to get a pediatrician to just administer the vaccine that she needed but we were told that because it's like a public health. The vaccines have to be done. Um, unless it's like 1 of those. Um and there's some vaccines that are like not in their plan. So if it's not in the plan I guess that can technically be done by a private position but ours told us that they weren't able to do it. It had to be done in public. Um. Which also like just knowing that ahead of time. Um, we felt like the doctor we had seen that kind of gave us the run around and and just didn't like wasn't just direct about it. Um, so yeah, that's important to know too because I feel like in the states you can just kind of like go to a private or you know go to a doctor and just like pay or whatever.

17:40.25
Kalie
Any of your yeah, any of your pediatricians will have the vaccines in their offices right? and it's very different here.

17:45.32
Hana
Yeah, yeah, and even if you don't have insurance like people you know sometimes will pay out of pocket if they have to or whatever you might not be able to get it like urgent care or something like that. But yeah, it's not the case here. So um, we we had to make sure we got into the public system before we got those vaccines.

18:00.89
Kalie
Yeah, because you have to go to a specific place right? So even though you go see a public doctor. They still send you to a specific place with the vaccines right.

18:06.52
Hana
Yeah, yeah, and it's way more complex too like they you know like there's appointments that they make when is a vaccine appointment One is a doctor appointment like sometimes they're not on the same day or with the same person. So it's just a lot to really like understand.

18:22.58
Kalie
And how is the level of English with the doctors you are working with.

18:24.39
Hana
Yeah, um, so my husband speaks spanish fluently which is not portuguese but there are a lot of similarities so like he'll go in and like just kind of like start saying some things in spanish hoping the message will get across. I found that like if there is a second language spoken. It's usually english it's not spanish um, the first place that we tried to like register her that we went back to several times like there was no english at all. Um, actually I think I think some of them. Ah, spoke more than they let on which was like a little bit front look I don't like we're in Portugal like I don't expect anyone to like speak my language like I'm here I need to speak theirs. But um, we just got here. So just it was it was hard but ah we lucked out because the health center that's now in our neighborhood. They. Everyone there speaks english so that's really nice.

19:19.64
Kalie
Yeah, that's good for our listeners to know So how does the how do you find a help center or how did you find yours.

19:29.36
Hana
Honestly I don't even know um I think we we went to the one that was like in just ah Google maps that was like in our proximity when we were saying that the airbnb but they had needed the lease. In order to register us but arlease was in Masinos which was not where we were anymore. So we went back to Masinos to see if we could do it but then they the whole thing is like you need to register on a certain day of the month and have certain paperwork and because we weren't residentids yet that was like a whole other thing. Like we were told mic as a baby so she'll be registered under a temporary sns number no matter what? so again, like everyone tells you these things but actually getting it done is like a different story like everybody will tell you something different so we did end up utilizing serenity to help us. Ah, with the translation when it came to like registering her because we had tried doing it ourselves and exhausted like all our options and we were like we really need help so they helped us.

20:24.46
Kalie
Yeah, so that's good to know for our listener that you're pegged to your ah public doctor or your Gp depending on where your lease is so where you live It's supposed to be kind of a neighborhood thing So that's how you find and generally people kind of happen.

20:33.20
Hana
Um, yeah.

20:39.80
Kalie
Upon that because you just look in your proximity because you don't want to go super far for a doctor anyway. So it works out that you find the doctor that you're supposed to land on but getting your s and s or your health number your U tent and is another name for it could be really difficult. So.

20:42.50
Hana
Um, yeah.

20:50.51
Hana
Um, yeah.

20:52.40
Kalie
So reity. That's great that um that they helped now that they help just get Mikas while before you guys got your residency or were you guys able to get a temporary or you you had to wait until you got residency.

21:01.27
Hana
Yeah, we still don't have our cards yet so we are still like because I guess the temporary number is actually her number. It won't change from what we're told I went to the doctor a few times and and so this is like really important. So there's ah, it's called a sporadic appointment. So that's like the verbiage that you need to use. So if you need to go to the health center but you're not yet a resident and you're not registered. You have to ask for a sporadic appointment. You have to go at 8 am when they open and if they have time they will put you in later in the day. Um, we tried to do that for the vaccine like ask for a sporadic vaccine appointment. That's just like not a thing so in order to get the vaccine. They do need to be like registered so that that is like the the first goal. So like if you need to get your child registered for vaccines like that would be the first step like they need to be in the system before they can set a vaccine appointment. Um, if the child just has like an ear infection and you want to get in. You can go again at Eight o'clock in the morning to to get an appointment for that sort of thing.

21:58.30
Kalie
Yeah, and this is actually common practice even when you are a resident if you need to get an appointment like I've had to do this for valencia like 1 time she had you know an eye thing and I had to.

22:05.41
Hana
Um, black.

22:09.82
Kalie
Get in and they're like come tomorrow at 8 and then you try to get in and it's like okay now you have an appointment later today at 4 and it's like what I have to come back with or can you just check her eye like right now.

22:14.78
Hana
Yeah, and it's very like frustrating I think like for Mika I usually just go to like private or something because I can like make an appointment or whatever. There are a few times I take I took I've taken her to the health center like once I figured everything out, but. Um, yeah I mean it. It's got pros and cons right? like it's nice because it's free, but and the doctors are very good, but it's also like if you're dealing with like schedule issues with your baby or sleep routine stuff like that. Not ideal.

22:47.71
Kalie
Yeah, it's really hard to get an appointment, especially like you know, sporadically right on the fly with the public this is where our private is really good because you can get them in faster another hack too that I found is you could go to one of the public hospitals.

22:51.68
Hana
Um, yeah.

23:00.72
Hana
Um, yeah, oh yeah, been there? Actually yeah.

23:02.60
Kalie
So for us in Porto. What's really nice is hospital sao zhuao has its own emergency room for kids. Um, which is great and they're great in there and now it doesn't you know obviously that they will see emergencies first. But um, I'm noticed when you go in there again for like the I thing I couldn't get an appointment for valencia. Um for a couple days for that one. So I was like. I don't want her being out of school. She just needs a doctor's note to get back in to make sure it's not contagious. They get a little pinkey stuff so I went there and they took a look. She's good here are drops. She can go back to school here's your letter and boom she was you know next day back at school. So and I noticed in there that there were other parents that had kids like you know the same thing it wasn't. A dire situation. It was an emergency but it's like we need to see a doctor now and we clearly can't get into our gp so they go there so that seems to be like a common practice as well.

23:49.75
Hana
Yeah I think like ah, having kind of like the the schema of like what would be the equivalent of like something you're used to back home here. So like for me like I learned that like you said like Urgnt care is like the same thing here as like going to the emergency room. And you wouldn't think of doing that back home like you wouldn't think of going to the emergency room for an ear infection or something like that unless it was like really really bad but and right, but that is something that you can do here in a lot of hospitals like we go to Luciata's I don't know pronounceer correct. But.

24:11.39
Kalie
Yeah, right? you you think emergencies only right? like big things. Yeah.

24:23.94
Hana
They actually have on their like site like waiting time for urgent care for like on their website. You can see how long the wait time is um which just tells you that you can bring them there for those those things. So yeah I think so yeah.

24:33.84
Kalie
Yeah, and that's a private hospital right? I think that what's private. Yeah, but if you have private insurance too. Then you have access to that and that's why a lot of expats you know tend to.

24:40.25
Hana
Yeah, so you'll pay more at that one. Also.

24:48.82
Kalie
To top up with private just to have access to that if need be Yeah, definitely insurance though right is always really hard. Um, okay, great. So earlier you mentioned sending mika to daycare. So what was that experience like and was it.

24:49.41
Hana
Um, yeah, it's a good like backup option I think yeah yeah.

25:04.31
Hana
Um, so personally like my husband I had thought that our baby was going to stay with us till like she went to school so a lot of that was just like being naive and.

25:05.93
Kalie
Public was it private.

25:18.57
Hana
Having no idea like how hard that was going to be to be working and have for home so we did have like um, a babysitter help us like two days a week shortly after we got here and then. We we had heard that people have to like register their child like a year in advance for daycare and I was like well that will be no problem because we're not even thinking about it yet. But oh my god that is like so true like if you have any even if you're not sure if you're gonna put your kid in daycare when you got hair like in the following year like. I would say like plan for that or like put a deposit down somewhere because because you'll have to wait a whole other year if you don't get your kid in somewhere so we did find a place when we really needed help um nearby I guess it's like more of like a public one I'm I'm not really sure. But it's definitely more like portuguese in that sense. A friend said that they do tend to have like openings yearround so we checked them out. Mika was nine months old at the time they are a nice place. It just ended up not being a good fit for us for a few reasons one of them just being like we felt like she was still too young. So um. We started asking around so this was back in like February we started asking our friends like where they send their kids and we went to a few places and um, again at the time we still thought we would be in Spain like this year but we did decide to just put a deposit down somewhere in case.

26:45.50
Hana
And I'm so glad that we did because we are staying here another year and had we beed like we you know would have been sl So yeah, yeah.

26:47.36
Kalie
Yeah.

26:54.50
Kalie
Yeah, so so then it's a private 1 right? because the public are hard to get into um but they are free for ah for the little ones. But so it's a private portuguese.

27:04.60
Hana
Yeah I guess like I don't understand too much of like the private public thing with that. Yeah, that was like a whole other thing to understand after we got through the vaccine situation. Yeah, it is I Guess it's It's a private one and um, yeah.

27:18.78
Kalie
Ah, quite affordable right? I mean comparing prices to other places the US the U K um to put your baby in Daycare or preschool is quite affordable here right.

27:20.63
Hana
Yes.

27:28.11
Hana
Yeah, so our place is around like 3 20 I think it ranges between like 3 and four hundred a month um some of like the public places are are more affordable. Um, and it also depends like you know the structuring like some people. Charge less for like part time or something like that or like if you're getting lunch or not getting lunch. Um, and that was another reason we were holding off on Spain because we looked at decarres there and it's the same type of thing you have to like look at it like a year in advance and they double the price over there. Um, so that was.

27:59.74
Kalie
Ah, okay.

28:03.70
Hana
You know a no-brainer for us.

28:03.31
Kalie
Yeah, that's good to know for people who are comparing Spain and and portugal with kids now here in Portugal you have to by the age of 6 they have to be in actual school so anything before that is considered. You know they call it crash or daycare and then preschool.

28:07.82
Hana
Um, bring you.

28:17.20
Hana
Birbium.

28:19.30
Kalie
Ah, which is optional but by the age of 6 then you have to be in actual school. So at that point you have to decide if you're doing public or private or international. Ah, but before that it's optional and it it seems like it accommodates for working parents or they have long hours if you want or they have more like a school structure that um, the private seem to do kind of like different classes whereas sometimes public can be a bit more. Open and free daycare style. Um, but it seems like the private have like classes is you're the one that mi is going to go to in September does it have does it offer different classes or what kinds of things. Ah, do you know that it offers.

28:49.23
Hana
Yeah, um, from my understanding and they have like more of like a school type of structure. Um, so parents can bring their kids in like any time of the day but generally they start like at around like 9 or something even though parents bring their kids in before. Um. That was nice to know too because the one that she was in for like a week was definitely more of like the day care style which is fine like some parents need what they need they need to do what they need to do and I think the kids were like cared for there was still structure. There was still like lunchtime and playtime and enough time and all that kind of stuff. But. But also has a lot to do with like the age of the child like Mika will be close to eighteen months when she starts school. She'll she'll be much more capable of like sticking to a a routine which was important for us as well.

29:36.18
Kalie
Yeah, definitely and have you thought I mean you know you probably might be in Spain at the time but have you thought when she's a little older. Are you thinking public school. Whatever the school system is of the country you're in or private school I mean and I'm sure as moms we've thought about it way in advance. Ah.

29:48.14
Hana
Yeah, you not to yeah we thought I mean like again I think max and I were like kind of like hipppie parents so we were like oh yeah, we're going to like just travel the world and do like we have thought about like world schooling and some you know I think at this point we kind of have to just? ah. Now that we've been parents for 1 year um and understand that things don't always like go the way that you thought that they were going to be so I think a lot of it will just like depend on what her personality is like and what she needs and we do plan on kind of like. Doing I would say like a 7 and d thirty ratio with like school and traveling. So I definitely don't like we don't feel that like at this point in her life school is like the most important thing like we will definitely choose traveling over school like 100 % of the time.

30:34.50
Kalie
Yeah.

30:36.68
Hana
Um, but that could change as she gets older and I think because we speak spanish at home. We are inclined to like also look at public schools in Spain because like you know the language won't be like an issue for her um whereas like in Portugal I think if we were here we would look at like a private school. Um, just because we'd want her to be like with english is like the primary language. Um, so that has a lot to do with that as well. So yeah, no, we haven't really looked into it yet, but it is something that we'll have to do.

31:08.40
Kalie
Yeah, something that I'm sure you guys have thought about as parents do. But I have heard of the world schooling and actually there there seems to be some really cool programs. They do different popups in different cities. Um that I've seen and I've known actually people who have gone to those and it seems like a really cool experience for the kids.

31:12.58
Hana
Um.

31:17.10
Hana
Um, yes.

31:25.50
Kalie
Ah, maybe can be a lot of work if you're you know you? you're also homeschooling as well because you know Josh I used to be teachers and I'm thinking I don't think I want to want to teach my kid I think I want her away. She needs a social aspect of it as well and personality wise it doesn't seem like it's for her. But.

31:32.97
Hana
Um, yeah, laugh.

31:43.19
Kalie
That's great advice. You have to kind of see what the personality is of the kid and and what were they will thrive because some kids thrive off of doing something more you know on their own and they're self-motivated but others need to be around other kids and all they're just all different types of kids. So it's hard to say you got to.

31:44.71
Hana
Um, yeah.

31:57.62
Kalie
Kind of go into and explore different options of types of schools and then schools when you get here because even here there's lots of you know there's a couple different international schools but they are different. So I always tell parents you have to go in and and check the school out yourself and see what fits for your family and for your child right.

32:04.16
Hana
Okay.

32:13.10
Hana
Yeah, and I think like you said like you and Josh were both teachers in international schools max and I did that as well. For several years so like you know, like being in that system like you know there there are I don't want to say there's problems international schools are great but it's a different like experience than. Like sending your kid to a regular like public school district in the us. It's just different and it's important to understand kind of like what why it's different right? like you might have teachers that are only there for 1 year before they leave so is that something that's going to bother you or you know so just. Just like stuff like that a lot of them are also working with like a lot of different curriculums like they're not just sticking to one. They're they're using several which like on paper is really great, but it's not always like implemented like the best way.

33:02.60
Kalie
Yeah, definitely.

33:04.90
Hana
Um, so it depends what her own values are like for your kid and and what you want and like right now for mika we want her to socialize That's like our biggest reason for putting her in school. So yeah.

33:16.90
Kalie
Yeah, definitely good for that age as well. They pick up so many things I get amazed when Cia comes home and she knows ah, you know how to do certain things or even just starting to write the numbers and everything which we we have stuff here. We play like that. But you just you see quick jumps where you're like wow I feel like last week you couldn't do that or it was very.

33:32.57
Hana
Um, yeah, it's amazing. Yeah.

33:33.70
Kalie
Crooked and now it's like you're it's straight. So just they practice that stuff there you know and they it's good for them to be around kids their age because they they see you know they mimic right? So they see that that and and for us it's really great that Valenia is going to be learning the language at her age. So.

33:43.94
Hana
Um, yeah.

33:50.94
Kalie
Much easier for her than it is for us. Yeah I know well Josh has made it his personal goal to not be that parent where like a piece of paper comes home and you have to have the kid read it for you? Yeah yeah, so.

33:50.96
Hana
Um, yeah, yes, your kid will be translating for you and.

34:02.58
Hana
They tell you what it is. Yeah, that's a good goal like get yourself at doctor level of professional thing. Yeah.

34:08.79
Kalie
He's yeah, staying ahead of her. Yeah, okay so I mean initially you kind of were thinking of Portugal as ah, not a bad way but a stepping stone right? like a way to get into Europe and while you figure things out.

34:17.51
Hana
Yeah, yeah.

34:22.57
Kalie
But it sounds like you're happy here. What are some things that you've really liked about being here that you didn't know about or that you didn't know you were like.

34:30.60
Hana
Yeah, so I think um, a lot of it does have to do with like the safety. Um I do think like every country has like its dangers like I I want to be like transparent I think people like. Think of portugal as a very safe place and it is definitely one of the safest places I've ever been in but like that doesn't mean you don't watch your kid right? like on the playground like you still have to be vigilant and I just want to make sure that people like are aware of that. But at the same time like. If I'm in a cafe and I trust like you know downstairs. The person who runs the cafe and I need to leave Mika there for a second to go to the bathroom like I've never actually done that before but if I had to I would feel okay with that. So. It's just like knowing who's around. So yeah I think for me like the highlights are like. How safe it is like our grocery store downstairs like mika is a celebrity. She's gotten 4 stuffed animals from the people that work at the grocery store. Um, which is just so sweet like that would never happen back home like.

35:24.93
Kalie
Ah.

35:28.82
Hana
People don't care. People are really really nice with babies here. They're respectful. You get priority when you go places which is super nice. Um I love like the playgrounds at the rest stop like we do. We've done a lot of road trips and being able to like get out stop to go to you know use the bathroom but also she can play on the swing for a little bit like that's. That's really nice. The malls have nice playgrounds and not playgrounds. What are they called? like yeah like playgrounds inside the mall and there's also like yeah and the baby stores are all like collected in 1 area of the mall which is great because I don't have to go to like this store and then go to the other side of the mall I can just go in and get what I need. So.

35:53.99
Kalie
Yeah, play errors. Yeah.

36:08.26
Hana
In that aspect I think like ah you know, port though for us is like a very small city like we want to be in a bigger city. But for her age right now it has been so easy and so convenient like everything is at our fingertips and that would be very challenging right now if we were in a bigger city or like ah a bigger country I guess.

36:25.96
Kalie
Yeah, well let's touch on that because people do ask about, especially sometimes if they're looking for a bigger city. So Porto feels like a small city to you.

36:27.73
Hana
So.

36:37.83
Hana
Yeah, so you know my husband and I were from New York New Jersey area like New York City is like you know a city that I was comfortable going into when I was like 14 years old so for us Porto feels like like a big town I guess um and you know. It's not something that we would want forever like ultimately we plan to move to a bigger city. We lived in Mexico City we lived in Seoul like these are the biggest cities in the world. So but I did always want to like experience living in like a smaller city and now that I'm doing it I'm like okay like I see why people like it like I see the point of it. So.

37:13.67
Kalie
Yeah, but you still feel like after living in a smaller city that you that you prefer and feel more comfortable in a big city.

37:22.47
Hana
Yeah, and I think I think the timing will work out because like for us right now like I think staying in Porto is good because like she's still so little we might want to have another baby so like just having everything within within immediate reach is is really nice. Um. But yeah I think eventually like when Mika's older like our kids are older like we'll want to be in a bigger city to just like have like access to like pull out of different things.

37:48.15
Kalie
Okay, another baby So you're you're ready to navigate the health care system and the hospitals with a baby being pregnant.

37:53.23
Hana
Um, yeah, not me yet I mean that's something we're still no I'm not but we're we're debating like you know we want to have kids close in age. So we're like.

38:04.95
Hana
You know that's another thing with moving right? Like do you just have the baby where you're comfortable right now or do you move first get settled in and then have a baby that is something we're like thinking about like for me I'd rather be in a country where I can like really understand what's happening to me. But um. I also like I know people who have had kids in Portugal and like they've had great experiences some have had not so great experiences but that can also happen like back home. So that's another thing where I'm like okay like I have time now I can like kind of understand how that's going to look you know, but we'll see.

38:35.82
Kalie
Yeah, yeah, kind of learn the ropes a little bit before it happens to you? Yeah or we had a friend who who moved here and she was pregnant and then she went to labor early and they weren't here for very long so she kind of had to navigate and they had 2 other kids. So.

38:41.30
Hana
Yeah, first.

38:53.62
Kalie
Husband You know it was like Mill and night the husband couldn't go with her so she had to kind of navigate that on her own. So ah, you know those emergency situations that you kind of just you got to deal with it. You know that but else you can do.

39:01.77
Hana
Yeah, and I I always knew like because we were abroad for so many years that I wanted to have like my first child in the United States so that I could really like just understand because I'm a very like anxious person and so you know I did that so I feel like. Now that would be like my second kid I would be like a little more comfortable I guess having my child abroad. So and there's also like perks with like your child becomes a citizen like right away if you've been here a year or something like that like we're still trying to figure that out but that might also help us with our. Spanish situation. So.

39:35.36
Kalie
Yeah, yeah, well, that's good. Well at X experts everywhere. We believe that living abroad transforms life. So how has living abroad transformed your life and how do you think it will transform your daughter's life.

39:49.21
Hana
Who um I think well first of all like my my career like being a freelancer like I really think it'll be difficult for me to live the lifestyle that I want to live back home just due to like I don't think our country is like set up for that type of thing. Um, so. Being abroad has transformed us because we're allowed to like have the time we want to spend with each other as a family like family comes first um, traveling lifestyle. All that stuff comes first. Um. And I think for Mika like I mean this will be her home right? like for her. It won't really be like abroad but she will know that like mom and dad don't come from here. Um, so I think even like at school she'll probably have a lot of like portuguese friends which is great I think also like I love. I love that you know your guys is meetups when mika gets to play with like other exp-pac kids like I kind of always envisioned that for her and now seeing that play out I just think it's like so cool because like she'll all these kids are going to share like a bond with each other that like you know. Other kids just like may not understand as much and not that I'm like for like exclusion or anything like that. But I think I think it'll be something that will shape who she is as a person. So.

41:08.33
Kalie
Yeah, awesome well Hannah. Thanks so much for joining us today.

41:12.50
Hana
Yeah, thanks for having me.