00:45.63
Kalie
Matthew what's it like working remotely in Portugal.

00:54.45
Matthew
Well I'm in an unusual situation because I'm a lawyer and there aren't a whole lot of lawyers who manage to work remotely from abroad. A lot of people work remotely as lawyers from an hour 2 or 3 away from their offices. But still have to come in frequently enough that that they really can't imagine moving to the other side of the world to do the job I'm in an unusual situation and I was able to. Create a system that would allow me to to not just be a lawyer but to be a litigator from the other side of the world I have covered to thank for it in large part because everyone got used to working over Zoom for depositions or even for court hearings. Um, for minor hearings and things like that and just a lot less face time even with clients and because of that I was able to start doing almost everything remotely without a hitch. Um, the only real. Problems that I have are related to the time difference I'm 5 hours ahead of everyone in my office in Atlanta and my clients and so I do have to start my day. Ah, pretty late about two o'clock and I'm not sitting at my desk for 8 hours a day but I have to.

02:27.55
Matthew
At least from about 2 to 6 every day I have to be available to clients and to colleagues who want to call me those calls usually happen in the morning and I have to be flexible I have to accept the fact that I'm going to get phone calls that. You know, sometimes at ten Eleven o'clock at night someone who thinks they're calling me and catching me in the office at seven P M not realizing that it's midnight. Um, but it just kind of comes with the territory when you make a choice to do something so unusual and I just tried to ah you know. Tell myself when annoying things happen. It's just part of the price I pay for getting to live here.

03:03.22
Kalie
Okay, awesome. So we're really going to dig into this working remotely because a lot of people are interested in this and Portugal seems like a really good place. So a few things I want to touch on is the time difference. You say you kind of just deal with it. So generally you have your mornings to yourself right? So you can wake up leisurely grab some coffee. What are your mornings of like. Before you actually jump on the computer or do you jump on right away and get some work done that you came in through the night or something.

03:29.52
Matthew
It's really hard to make myself get up in the morning because no one is waiting for me I have been able to to manage to make myself get out of bed at 9 pretty regularly and I go across the street to a cafe have a coffee and a torada are ah. You know our lunch some other little treat that they make there and I have my ah may the aid and sit there for twenty Twenty five minutes read the news and come back home and that usually leaves me with maybe three and a half hours left to do what I want I I play piano pretty seriously I take lessons and so I usually get my practicing done then instead of later in the day and so I don't normally start working until two o'clock but of course if I have a big project. It's nice to have all that time in the morning. To be able to ah get things done before people start calling.

04:28.20
Kalie
So It's almost like flipped because I think our mindset is that in the mornings you have to get up you get going and you start work and then you finish work and then you have the evenings to do these things to practice piano your hobbies whatever that might look like so. I Guess so for people who want to work remotely wrapping their mind around the time difference would be like a possibility is that your day will just kind of flip.

04:50.77
Matthew
Yeah, you just do it. However, you want to really and this just happens to be what works for me I ah I also like to have you know a glass of 1 or two later in the afternoon and yeah, that's one of the the other.

05:03.72
Kalie
Drinking on the job huh.

05:07.93
Matthew
Big benefits of of working remotely. So you know come seven o'clock at night I'm usually not in the mood to practice piano anymore. Um, so you know so I do try to get my ah my real work out of the way.

05:14.28
Kalie
Are.

05:22.88
Matthew
Um, my nonwork work out of the way first thing in the morning because it's when I can be productive. But yeah I can see you know you just have to get used to being able to have the freedom to do your life the way you want to and not the way that everyone expects.

05:37.51
Kalie
Yeah, that definitely makes sense and we'll chat a little bit about you know your move to Portugal and and why you chose porto in a second but the last thing I want to touch on with remote working is do you have to go back and forth to the US often

05:51.30
Matthew
No, not often and it would be more often except that I work in a firm with 5 other attorneys and support staff paralegals that kind of thing and fortunately they can bill on my cases. Just like I can so if I need something done that has to be done in the city or in the office and it's really minor and not something that I want to fork over like eight nine hundred dollars for a plane ride back to the us for. Have people in my office who can handle it for me little little things that they don't have to spend time preparing for. They don't have to learn the case that kind of thing but for bigger things like a trial and evidentiary hearing an oral argument with an appeals court that kind of thing. Yeah I just have to go back. But. That's only happened once in the past year um and it it probably there probably will be years where it gets rough and I have to travel 2 or 3 times. But so far it's working out pretty smoothly and you know this just seems to be the age we live in now where. It's acceptable even for courts to allow you to do things remotely. For example, de depositions where you take sworn um sworn Testimony from witnesses in a case, they're not in a courtroom. They're usually in a conference room in an office but there's a court reporter there. It's warned testimony.

07:24.67
Matthew
You have them sometimes up to 7 hours the and you know the entire day asking questions. Um and taking testimony used to be ah you know 90% of the time you did that in person. But since covid now it's 90% of the time remote um over Zoom and. When you're taking a deposition when when you're the one asking the question. You know you can ah I can do that remotely 100% of the time. Um, it's only when someone wants to take an in-person deposition of my client. That's when I have to ask another lawyer to come step in. And basically sit in the room babysit them for a few hours make any objections that need to be made and um, you know and and I sit there and I listen to and I email them any thoughts that I have but it's not something that they need to be super prepared for so ah so yeah I really

08:22.62
Matthew
You know as ah, weird as it is I Really do have covid to thank for making this possible because it it would not without that kind of intervention of Necessity. This really would never. Have been something that other lawyers and judges and courts would have ever allowed me to do.

08:39.85
Kalie
Right? So we've just become so much more digital and it's obviously worked in a favor for a lot of different industries.

08:45.78
Matthew
Yeah, you know law firms businesses. Everyone has figured out that you know you can do this and I don't really have any any strong basis to object to you doing it this way because we all know now that it can be done.

09:02.16
Kalie
Yeah, yeah, definitely So why did you choose portugal. Oh.

09:05.86
danmetiv
1 quick. Ah sorry 1 quick question before we move on just about your employment structure. Are you an employee of your firm or are you a partner. How's that work.

09:15.84
Matthew
I was an employee for seven or eight years of of this firm before I moved and I converted to being an independent contractor receiving a ten ninety nine when I moved now you know I'm an employment lawyer and um. It. It really annoys me when I hear people about you know I'm getting converted to 1099 or or w two you you don't get to choose your tax treatment. The law tells you whether you're an independent contractor or or an employee. And to ensure that I was actually an independent contractor required restructuring quite a few things about the way I work. Um the way that I'm compensated and ah I'm now responsible for paying my continuing education. You know. I'm responsible for my own um out of pocket costs for travel that kind of thing and I'm only getting paid for billable hours rather than all my hours worked those types of things. Um I don't have a schedule anymore you know the. These types of things so that it's a bona fide independent contractor relationship. You really should not assume that you can just snap your finger and say okay, we're going to give you a ten ninety nine instead of a w 2 and that's your choice to make because it's not your choice your actual worker relationship.

10:39.13
Matthew
Has to reflect an independent contractor Relationship. You really do have to be in business for yourself. Um, so I I do want to you know the lawyer in me wants to alert anyone listening that. It's more complicated than you may think and you really should. You know, make sure that you understand the legalities of of changing your taxation methods. Um or your employer changing the taxation methods because it's some. It's not just a free choice.

11:09.65
danmetiv
Great. Thank you? okay.

11:12.28
Kalie
Well then why did you choose portugal.

11:15.73
Matthew
I wish that I could tell you that I just love portugal and had always dreamed of living here and thought the culture was fantastic, but the truth is I knew almost nothing about portugal before moving we and it was really not because I didn't like Portugal because I knew very little about it. We initially had wanted to live in Southern Italy and um, then I discovered that getting a visa to italy is really hard then I thought okay well Spain is kind of like italy so I'll go to Spain and. That would have worked just fine. Um, except for some particularities of spanish law for me to be an independent contractor there and self-employed I had to form a business in Spain and register it. But I'm a lawyer and I'm not a spanish lawyer.

12:10.89
Kalie
Who.

12:13.00
Matthew
So I can't start a spanish law firm. So I really couldn't find any way around that um in Spain and so I thought okay well, what's another option and Portugal was the third choice. Um, and it was really just by default because of the way that ah portugal is very lax with their with their requirements for visas. Especially for remote workers.

12:42.30
Kalie
Okay, so you don't have the same things in Portugal as you do in Spain as far as the law aspect and.

12:50.20
Matthew
No, you can. It's being being self-employed um but working for clients who are entirely outside the United States I didn't have to register a business in Portugal to do that. My business is based in the us I'm just physically here. And portuguese law allowed me to do that more easily than than I could have in in Spain for example, so you know we we knew we wanted to be in Southern Europe my mother lives with me and she didn't want to live in. You know Sweden are somewhere really cold. Um. So so we you know we were sort of limited to Southern Europe to begin with and then it was the visa situation in Portugal you know portuguese law made it possible and so that's why we came here now with that said now that I'm in Portugal I can't imagine you know leaving. I definitely am glad that I'm here rather than Spain or italy um, but ah it was just by luck and not by plan.

13:50.21
Kalie
Okay, all right. We'll chat about why you're so happy that you are in Portugal in a second but you said that you moved with your mother. So your mother lives with you and she applied for her visa independently.

14:03.23
Matthew
You know she had been living with me for several years before we move and you know I still need to give her some financial support. She's retired and um and so you know I kind of just had to ask her one day I think i. Gave her a cocktail first and you know hey would you like to move to italy and she's like okay you know, yeah and um, and then you know she just sort of went with the flow as I changed the countries that we plan to move to.

14:28.34
danmetiv

14:28.97
Kalie
Jeez What was in that cocktail.

14:38.99
Matthew
Um, and she just sort of went along with it. But ah, you know she likes the lower cost of living and ah she she was very unhappy in Atlanta with all the amount of crime there and and also just prices were astronomical. Um, worse and worse. So she you know she was ready to get out of there too and wasn't too tied ah to Atlanta because of her retirement. So yeah, so just worked out and she came with me and yeah, we're living in central porto now.

15:07.24
Kalie
Okay, so both just looking for something a little differently and going with the flow. That's awesome. So okay, you are in Porto Why did you choose Porto I mean because you had never been to portugal before coming right.

15:10.73
Matthew
Are.

15:16.45
Matthew
Yeah, no I didn't I didn't do a scouting trip as everyone calls it I thought about it but we had so much going on I was trying to prepare a house for sale. You know the visa process itself is expensive just moving anywhere is expensive and I thought you know going to portugal for one week is not going to tell me if I am going to be happy living there. You know somewhere that's a good tourist destination. It's not necessarily a good place to live.

15:48.84
Kalie
Um.

15:54.30
Matthew
and and I didn't think that there was much chance that I was going to have a better understanding of what living in Portugal would be like from a one week trip living in a hotel. Um, so so I just decided to risk it and. And moves sort of side. Unseen um I hired people to arrange everything here and that expense was you know, very small compared to everything else you have to do to move? Um, how are people to set up nifs and utilities. And ah furniture moving and I even hired someone from Facebook ah to go look at apartments for me in face time with me while she explored the apartment with the realtor. Um, and it all worked just kind of perfectly and it wasn't very expensive. Um, fortunately in Portugal. You know services like that are are just not not um, bank breaking. Oh yeah, the choices were you know agar of lisbon porto those are the the 3.

16:53.37
Kalie
Um, so why did you land on Porto if you had never been here why? Porto.

17:06.47
Matthew
Places that are I think most people's first place to live if you know some people.

17:10.40
danmetiv
Guys I'm going to pause us right here I'm sorry I'm getting an error from both of you offline um are you both seeing any kind of error or messaging popping up on your side.

17:14.56
Kalie
Oh.

17:20.37
Matthew
I have throughout the whole conversation every every now and then I'll see something but nobody said anything So I thought.

17:20.64
Kalie
Sometimes yeah.

17:28.48
danmetiv
No worries you were great up until now and the whole thing also backs up online so it's recording this like a Zoom call as well. So um, I'll always have something to work with um.

17:35.71
Matthew
Um, okay.

17:39.27
danmetiv
But I think what we're going to try I'm going to have you both log out of the conversation and log back in I'm sorry to do it to you but I want to make sure we get as much as we can here. Thank you see you a minute.

18:06.28
danmetiv
Um, welcome back I Got a clean bill of health from you now.

18:10.64
Kalie
Um, thank you? okay.

18:18.16
danmetiv
Excellent Matthew welcome back I've got the green lights from you as well. So we can just pick this back up and ah Kaylee we could start with that last question question which yep, thank you.

18:24.69
Matthew
Ah, okay.

18:30.44
Kalie
That port porto. Yeah, okay, so then why did you choose porto if you had never been to portugal why Porto.

18:42.36
Matthew
There are 3 areas and in portugal that people typically will start out their their journey living here lisbon the algarve and porto and I knew that I would be miserable in the heat. In the all guard and even in lisbon it can get kind of nasty but there is this huge climate change somewhere around coimba I think and you come up to Northern Portugal and it's it's you know it's basically the same weather as galicia. In Spain and it's it's maritime. It's it's much cooler in the summer and you know and then on top of that it doesn't freeze in the winter. Um a lot of people complain about the humidity and rain here in the winter. Um, but I can handle that the getting away from the heat was. Was a big thing for me. Um, and that that was really it was you know if I'm going to live in Portugal I wanted to live in an area with this type of climate and um and of course on top of that.

19:52.58
Matthew
You know I wanted to live in ah in a larger city especially at first and there's really only 2 choices in Portugal for that. Um, and you know Porto is a lovely city and even though I had never been here I had a very good idea of what it looked like and and what was available here and. It was a pretty easy choice to make.

20:11.23
Kalie
Um, what are some things that you love about Porto now that you're here.

20:17.55
Matthew
It's a small city. You know you can get the false impression that it's big because it's so compact and because there's a lot of tourists in the center. Um. But it's really not a very big city and you can walk the entire thing but it still has good public transportation. Good metro system. It has everything that you would expect in a larger city. Maybe not quite as many activities as in lisbon. But um, but you still. Have the sense of living in a real city and the things that I enjoy about living in Porto specifically are really not specific to Porto. It's about living in a city center but without all the crime in the us and without the insane prices that I would have. Found living in say midtown Atlanta um, that's changing unfortunately a lot of people have gotten the same idea and the prices are going up and that may not last forever but it was.

21:12.83
Kalie
You.

21:25.20
Matthew
It seemed like it would be an easy place to live in that that that has panned out. It has been a very easy place to to live and to get started here I'd be much more worried about trying to move to portugal and live in a smaller town or in a village right? Ah, right? off the bat without knowing the city. Everyone here speaks english practically um and it's you know it's just ah, it's like the kitty pool of living in in ah in Portugal. So.

21:56.43
Kalie
So then would you consider moving outside of porto now that you've been in Porto for a little bit and you kind of know the area probably staying in the north because of the weather but are there other areas of the north that you would consider.

22:11.71
Matthew
Absolutely um I consider them I can't say that I want to leave porto. Um I am happy here but again I ah I'm not poorly compensated but I am not working. Full time anymore and I enjoy having a lot of free time. Ah for my other projects and you know I don't want to work 40 hours a week trying to afford an expensive apartment in central porto. So if the prices keep rising I may just preserve my ah quality of life I may end up ah moving out I haven't decided where I've thought about vinna de costello braga gimon a.

22:57.22
Matthew
And when you move further inland you lose a lot of this sort of maritime climate that we have so you go inland as far as even ammara aunt and viate al um it it gets much hotter in the summer they get freezing and snow in the winter so you know but they're. Beautiful places and I would still consider them but to sort of preserve as much of what I love in Porto but perhaps with a lower lower rent. Um I think my first choice would probably be viiona the costello.

23:26.95
Kalie
Um, and are you considering just renting from now on or would you purchase a property.

23:34.19
Matthew
Ah, that's a difficult question I really kind of value the freedom that I have in renting being able to to jump around. But of course there's other there's downsides to it of course I'd love to have a big dog but I don't dare get 1 unless I own property. Um. You know I would love to have a little bit of land. Um to ah, not just for a dog but you know things like koi ponds or you know something fun like that and you just can't do that as a renter. Um, so it's something that I think about off and on but I have no immediate plans and. We'll probably keep renting for at least a few more years

24:13.97
Kalie
Um, there's always this big debate on like what's best for people. Our allgarf lisbon Porto. So what's some advice you would give to people that porto is not for you if you like these things.

24:26.18
Matthew
I would say people in their twenty s who have very active social lives like to party Port Portugal is probably just not the best choice of country for you.

24:40.48
Kalie
Um, perhaps.

24:41.57
Matthew
In that case but especially not Porto compared to lisbon because it is slower. It is a smaller city. Um, you don't feel that when you're out walking around but it does have the effect of reducing the amount of activities that are available to go do. Um, and Portugal just doesn't seem to have you know a bar and nightlife scene like anglophone countries primarily I'm thinking of the Us and and the UK. um so so if you're Departing. It's just probably not the best place although you know. Maybe people are just not inviting me to the parties I don't know. Yeah that's the other thing the the few bars and clubs that are here. They don't open till midnight and I don't understand how these iberians do it they they all seem to have to get up early in the morning but they they ah.

25:22.00
Kalie
Ah, maybe you're not up late enough.

25:22.86
danmetiv
Ah.

25:38.82
Matthew
Stay up really late at night and and I can't do that certainly but and and of course the other the other groups who probably wouldn't like Porto and I think most of them have figured this out. It's not hot here very often. It gets hot for a few weeks in the summer but the winter or the water water is always cold all year the beaches are not very large the few that there are they tend to be rocky. It's not a Sunday there's paradise it's not. You know it's not somewhere that you should move if you want to live laying on the beach all the time. Um, go to the algar for that or go to Spain but um, but beyond that it's just a fantastic place to live and you know if you like. Hearing the ocean and smelling the ocean but not going in it then you know it's perfect.

26:33.87
Kalie
Okay, great. Let's shift hey.

26:34.59
danmetiv
I Feel like you just made a list of all the reasons why I need to be in porto That's that's everything that I've been looking for sorry sorry continue. Ah, not anymore.

26:41.68
Matthew
Ah.

26:43.85
Kalie
You don't want a party after midnight and lay on the beach Dan yeah times have changed same here all right? Well let's shift gears a little bit because earlier you talk about hiring someone like even just he found someone on Facebook to set things up. So.

26:50.57
Matthew
Up in.

27:03.10
Kalie
You've moved here side unseen but you you had to set some stuff up. So let's talk about how you got connected with people do that and how did you navigate those things.

27:11.54
Matthew
All of it through the Facebook porto group. It was really informal I just you know either I did a lot of what I wish more people would do which is to use the search function. And find the 20 or 40 or 50 other times that the same question has been asked and answered um I probably did ask a few questions too. But um I just you know found people. Basically when you and when you ask a question about how do I get help to do this. You can. Pretty assured that someone who offers that service is going to respond and that's how I usually found people who are offering these services and I provided you with the names for a couple. Um someone who set up. Um and I don't have her name on me right now I gave it to you earlier though. Um, she had services for setting up your nif your your non-habitual residence set is turning on your utilities. Everything Barbara Montero maybe yes, exactly.

28:10.68
danmetiv
Yep, was that Barbara yes, exactly.

28:21.75
Matthew
Um, so she offers that service and I'm about to contact her again to finalize our and nhr and um and I found a mover um, not a mover. But ah well someone to move furniture. We bought a lot of Ikea furniture when we first arrived and he shipped everything here and. He helped put the furniture together and sort of by doing that he kind of became our handyman his name's Tiago Silva and he has um, ah his business which is primarily furniture moving ah is advertised on the Facebook group quite a bit and. He's done great work for us and he's installed lights in our apartments shelving a new laundry rack on our balcony. Just everything we've needed and and you know services here again are very reasonable priced. So um. And of course we're moving here. We don't have a toolbox when we moved you know across the Atlantic so we really didnt need a lot of help but it's been very simple and straightforward to get that stuff done. Um.

29:26.95
Kalie
Were you ever worried about getting scammed.

29:33.77
Matthew
Um, I almost did get well I don't want to say I almost got scammed I got into the early stages of a scam involving a property on on Facebook but no.

29:49.49
Matthew
I don't think it takes much to to check in on so whether someone has a legitimate business. You know with someone like Barbara or Tiago they've been on the group for quite a while. They're a known known quantity and you know and I've tried to comment on when Tiago's posted his services I've always tried to leave a comment to say you know that I endorse him so no, it's if you if you search around on on the Facebook group. You can pretty much do your due diligence when you're hiring someone and of course you know for some of these services you only pay when they're finished. So.

30:23.12
Kalie
Um, okay.

30:27.62
Matthew
That that that certainly reduces your risk if you know you pay someone after they go look at the apartment for you that kind of thing.

30:32.83
Kalie
Yeah, definitely any red flags you notice that you would just just be like look out for this if someone says or does this then that's probably something to stay away from.

30:44.60
Matthew
I haven't been on the lookout for it much I have noticed quite a few scam looking posts on Facebook primarily relating to jobs I think but also to apartments and you want to you know we went through Remax when. We we looked around on idiotista for um, for an apartment but then when I kind of found myself getting lured by a scam artist I started checking the remax website more and we eventually found it through there and that obviously gave me a lot of confidence in in. The apartment situation because it was through a you know, very well known business.

31:25.48
Kalie
Yeah, so going with a company or a person who's well established rather than someone who just seems to pop up right.

31:34.27
Matthew
Exactly? Yeah, yeah, if you find them on ah on on a not the East Step perhaps but on on ah a real estate website Really so real estate website. You know it's almost certain that it's going to be a legitimate.

31:48.56
Kalie
Right? and.

31:50.41
Matthew
Ad and the same would the same would go for job job postings as well. If someone is advertising a job in a single post on Facebook you know, um, be careful. Don't don't send them.

31:59.31
Kalie
Be careful. Yeah yeah, don't send them money I don't don't send them money for sure. Yeah.

32:04.10
danmetiv
Ah, ah.

32:08.70
Matthew
As a general rule. Don't send people money who are offering you jobs they're so they're supposed to pay you.

32:14.90
Kalie
Okay, so then with setup did you have any issues or what were some of like the learning curves when you first arrived to your apartment.

32:22.30
Matthew
It took me the the 2 real problems that we had when we first got here where we arrived in November and you know I didn't really quite believe everyone that it's colder in your house than outside before I got here and then I realized yep it it sure is. Um, but we fixed it very simply got some 2 big dehumidifiers that we run through the winter and some oil-filled radiators that we put in a few rooms in the house and you know it's increased our electric bill a little bit I'm sure but we're perfectly comfortable. It's about getting that humidity out of your apartment and and that really kind of solved the entire humidity problem that everyone is endlessly complaining about who's not who's not used to the weather here. Um, so so that was a ah learning curve just figuring out that it was the humidity and not the temperature that was the problem. Um, and and then the real technical problem we had moving in was with our electricity when we turned on our washing machine in our stove at the same time all of the electricity would go out and you know sometimes it would just go out for no apparent reason when we weren't even running large appliances eventually I figured out. Um.

33:48.34
Matthew
What was going on and I had to hire someone to handle it for me. The problem was less of a language problem and more because utilities electrical utilities are are the services are not provided in the exact same way that I'm used to in the Us here. Apparently you can. Choose different levels of of voltage or or um I'm sorry I have a cat who who is starting to make a lot of noise wanting out. Sorry let's let's back up. Um, can we back up.

34:17.39
Kalie
Yeah, go for it.

34:21.94
danmetiv
Sure.

34:26.21
Matthew
How I'll go I'll just back up to my backup. My answer the real. The only real technical problem that I encountered here had to do with our electricity. We had ah electricity just going out for sometimes for no reason at all. But usually when we were running.

34:26.33
Kalie
How far back. Do you want to go.

34:44.97
Matthew
Multiple large appliances and the problem ended up being not so much a problem of you know language I but I needed to hire a portuguese person to fix this for me because I didn't understand how electrical services are structured here. Um, it's just different than in the Us. And you you apparently get different levels of of power or different numbers of different and numbers of cables that they use to provide your power with. And I'm I'm not sure and like you know I can't explain in any kind of intelligent way. What the problem was but I just had to upgrade my level of service to avoid that happening and I could never have accomplished that without hiring someone because ah. You know, even if I was able to translate everything I wouldn't have known what to ask for because I've never experienced power being supplied in that way so that was a real learning experience.

35:47.70
Kalie
Yeah I think this is something that um seems to be very confusing for foreigners when they move here because especially short-term rentals. They always seem to the landlords put at the lowest because they don't want to be paying and then even with long term I think that they just kind of set it up that way. So it seems like a lot of times you go in and it's probably on the lowest.

36:03.87
Matthew
Me.

36:04.95
Kalie
Power supply and then you yeah you try to run your I don't know a blender and everything you know goes off and all you have to do for us. We just think I I blew a fuse right? and but then it keeps happening but there is a solution to that you can upgrade how much power you're getting which makes it a lot nicer. So do you have any issues now.

36:13.84
Matthew
Again.

36:23.19
Kalie
Or you're good.

36:25.24
Matthew
No I have no issues now someone? um from the utility company from Edp came about a week ago to do an annual inspection. It's a free service that they offer and he told me that we were using some setting that was cost. More money than the normal I suspect he's talking about the same the setting that I intentionally had changed although I'm not sure and he said that we're spending too much money you know because of that. Yeah and that I could have it downgraded and.

36:54.48
Kalie
Um, ah how nice of him.

37:01.25
Matthew
I'm not gonna I'm not going to risk that my electric bill for a large 3 bedroomroom apartment now is you know, maybe 120 years a month um ah you know it's probably more than I could get away with paying here. It's probably more than a portuguese person would find reasonable. Um, but. It's a lot less than I was paying before and it's something I can live with I'm saving money in so many other ways that I'm happy to leave that alone.

37:27.43
Kalie
Yeah, and speaking of paying for things. Would you say that porto and portugal in general is ah a cash or a card culture and how do you pay for these different services. You've talked about.

37:40.95
Matthew
Well, it depends on on. Well if you're hiring someone for personal services I would say it's a cash culture because they don't want a paper trail. Um, they don't you know that's when someone's.

37:54.46
Kalie
Um, yeah.

37:56.68
Matthew
Doing doing basically independent contractor work for for small things cleaning that kind of thing they typically won't cash and you know you don't have to be a genius to figure out why but or to guess why. But um. As far as your day-to-day life going to stores and things like that. It's both. You can use both almost anywhere. Um, sometimes I'll go to a fruit and vegetable market and they won't accept say a foreign credit card but they'll accept it if it's a portuguese card. Um, they also of course have minimum transaction fees. So if you're you know buying ah buying some vegetables that are only a couple of dollars they may refuse to run your card for that. But by and large everywhere that I've gone in a city has has accepted cards. Um, it may be different out in small towns. But I haven't spent enough time in rural areas to really to really know.

38:53.70
Kalie
Um, yeah, sure all right? Well Edx my myself where we believe that living abroad transforms life. So how has living in Portugal transformed your life.

39:01.65
Matthew
My mood since moving here is much better just I feel just generally better on a day to day basis and it's not because of anything in particular. It's just about a different lifestyle I'm not commuting and and of course not working as much and that some that has nothing to do with moving anywhere. It's just I've made the choice to to work less and then that's going to increase. Anyone's happiness. But. You know in in the past several years especially the United States has to me seemed to become just a really kind of hostile place. Um, just a lot of everyone seems to be on edge and ready to sort of.

39:47.78
Kalie
Who.

39:53.57
Matthew
Shout ready to to get angry about anything. Um, and of course I'm not commuting either and that not having to drive on ah on I 87 in Atlanta every day is going to improve anyone's mood. Yeah, but you know.

40:06.36
Kalie
Makes you much happier person.

40:12.78
Matthew
I walk to the vegetable market every day I walk to the cafe across the street life is just a lot simpler and you know because of a host of different reasons. You can't have this kind of very simple lifestyle in the us. Unless you are independently wealthy unless you or unless you're just working enormous hours for high pay and can and then don't have the time to enjoy it. Um, but you know this is more normal, not just importo but in in in Europe.

40:33.71
Kalie
Um, just.

40:51.70
Matthew
Generally and even though Portugal is a relatively poor country in western europe um, you you just don't have a lot of the social pathologies that the United States is dealing with and um, life has just you know. Become a lot simpler a lot calmer and just more pleasant generally and I could see that being the case for anyone moving anywhere in portugal really um and a lot of different places in Europe could offer that same benefit. But um. You know people I think were meant to live close together you know and we you know we thrive interacting with other people on a personal basis. You know with minor transactions you know going to the store frequently. And not having to drive 15 minutes to to an enormous supermarket for example, just to to buy your groceries I you know I buy my my milk or my vegetables every day and I get to have a relationship with the the people who work it at the market near my house. And these are just not experiences that american urban culture or suburban culture even more really allows anymore and you know obviously you can tell from talking to me about it I highly prefer this.

42:15.53
Kalie
Yeah, awesome. All right Dan do I need to do any sort of sign off there or like thank Matthew or.

42:22.24
danmetiv
Yeah, give them a thanks just for being here I think that's great and then ah but we'll end up having a little more at the at the end of each episode. So yeah.

42:34.70
Kalie
Matthew thank you so much for talking to us today about what it's like to be a remote worker in Portugal and just the slow down pace of life that you're enjoying in Porto.

42:43.85
danmetiv
Matthew we really appreciate you putting up with the technical difficulties. Thank you very much, especially our our first day doing these recordings together with an ocean between us this has gone really well and I I appreciate your time I'm going to hit stop.

42:45.55
Matthew
Um, thanks a lot Bye bye.

43:03.24
Matthew
Okay.