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Christine, I'm really looking forward to having this chat with you, because I think that we're really gonna be able to dive in to a contrasting story about the Portuguese healthcare system. And I feel like, before we do that, we need to get to know you a little better, how you got to Portugal, and how things have been going for you while living here, because you've been here a couple of years now. So if you could tell us where you're from, and just, yeah, kind of tell us about how you moved to Portugal. Okay, so I originally am from the United States, and I was born and raised in New England, specifically the Rhode Island area. And I met my husband about 17 years ago, and he happens to be Portuguese. And we were content living in our Rhode Island place and doing our jobs and stuff. And then as we started to get older, my husband started to come up with the idea of, we should go and visit Portugal. It's beautiful, and you'd like it. And he's like, I think we should go for a month. And I was like, a month? I'm not, no. Vacation for me, a week and a half, I'm ready to go home, I get homesick even, you know? And he's like, oh my gosh, you need at least a month to see Portugal. I was like, oh, I'll give you 10 days. So he got me over here, and I was like, wow, it really was quite beautiful. I enjoyed it, you know? And then it started to become, hey, maybe we should consider moving to Portugal. And I was like, I hate moving to Portugal. Forget it, no way. It ain't happening. So he started getting me to watch videos. And the more I watched these videos and saw the lifestyle, I started to kind of think, you know, that's nice. Maybe it's something for me to consider as we get closer to being able to retire in the future. And the more videos we watched, and expats everywhere, and a few other familiar ones that are out there, I started to think, gee, maybe I do want to live there. So we came and visited again, and this time we stayed for two weeks. And then around the pandemic, we had already planned to sell our house. And we did sell it right smack dab in the middle of it. And we came here during the pandemic with the intention of staying. Okay. But we've actually done this, Josh, I don't know if you read my stuff on- I absolutely read it, and that was gonna come up in conversation. You know? The fun fact. But we've actually been here, yeah, we've been here. We've moved here three times over the course of five years, four and a half years, and every single time with the intention of staying in either place. So we were gonna permanently stay here the first time, and then we went back to the States and bought another house and we're like, no, no, Portugal is complicated. It's bureaucratic, it's difficult. We thought we were just nuts and just had a moment. But then the more we were sitting in the US again, and things were changing, the temperature there of things kept changing, we're like, you know what? We should have just stayed. So we came back and we stayed a little longer the second time. And again, we started to have so many issues. This time we were buying a house, and unfortunately we lost 15,000 euros in that house deal. So it left a very bad taste in our mouth, and that's maybe a conversation for another time. But we went back to the States again. And then my husband and I kept thinking, oh gosh, Portugal's just so beautiful and it's the culture and the people and the lifestyle, and it's more laid back, and we really did like it. And maybe we just didn't give it enough of a chance, and it was just one bad thing that happened to us. So yep, we sold another house. We ended up selling three houses. And each one we lived in, it wasn't like we just had real estate, you know? So it was quite the undertaking. The first two times we moved containers, and then the last time we came with just two pallets, because I was just over it. I just could not anymore with the containers. So we sold the house basically with its contents, and the people that bought our house were pretty happy about that, and I was happy too, because I didn't have to move a whole container. So we got lucky. The place we bought here was furnished, and it was really nice furniture. So all of that stuff worked out for us. So here we are, and we've actually, this is the longest we've been here, and it's been a year. One year. One year. We're actually anniversary in May, I believe, 19th, or something like that was our one year anniversary. Congratulations. Thank you. So, you know, again, yes, of course we've encountered, you know, the annoying things here and there with whether it be our Vodafone, or our Mio account for our cable, and we have managed this time to say, you know, yes, everything does take a little longer here, but we're already prepared for that, because hey, we've done this three times. We're experts now. We, pfft. Vodafone's telecom. Okay. Okay? We good, Dan? Okay. And for the listener, if you don't know, Vodafone is telecom. It could also be, you know, cable, internet packages, but yours was for your telecom, right? For mobile phones. Right. I mean, just one of those examples of some of the bureaucratic complications that you get, you know? So we know if you're coming here, because we've seen it, we've experienced it, that things just take longer in general. Yep. So on, you know, we made sure we had everything in place to protect ourselves best we could, lawyer this time that was recommended for our purchase, our, you know, home purchase. We made sure we had our health insurance, and we researched all those plans, and then we had heard about having someone assist you with navigating the health process in case you get stuck. And yes, we have an advantage where my husband can speak Portuguese, but, you know, even me, I don't like going to doctor's appointments and dragging him in there with me. I like to go on my own, talk to my doctor. But, you know, we did get the Serenity group to assist us, and my nurse, her name is Martha, and she's been great to help me. There were many times where I was like, do I even need health insurance? You know, we'll use the public system. But then I get a little cringy about that, because the other two times that we came here, we would explore all of Portugal, like literally everywhere. And it brought me to like different places with my husband, because he'd say, it's good for us to know what the hospitals are like, and we should just go and explore them. I mean, yeah, it's great to go to Obidos, and it's great to go to the Algarve, and go and see all these fun things like Tumar, but important life things that you are gonna need are important too. So we would like snoop around and go in like a private hospital or private clinic, and we're like, oh, it's so shiny and bright and lovely, you know, and then we'd go to a couple of the public ones. So for example, I've seen or used ones in Caldas, which would be like their thermal hospital. I've been to their main hospital. I've been to the public in Coimbra, in Alcobaça. I've been to the public in Perniche, and I've been to the public in Pumbal. And some of those were explorative, and some of them were because I didn't feel well, which I'm not really a sickly person, but I did come down with the cold and wondered, oh, is it COVID and all that stuff. So what I can tell you is during those explorations, I literally had like a panic attack in one of them because it was so old and massive, and I went to go and use the ladies room, and it had doors that I went in, and when I left, I thought I went in out the same door I came in, but evidently I had not. And I don't know what creepy hallway I was in, but I felt like I had just entered a scary movie, and I couldn't find my husband. And I felt like I was in a sleep ward or something. It was just surreal. And I felt myself getting nervous, like I didn't really know what happened. And it was like some just really weird event, and I didn't like that feeling. And so my husband comes around the corner, and he's like, what are you doing? And I was like, I couldn't find you. I got nervous. And he's like, oh my gosh. And he's like, why didn't you just come back out? And I was like, but I did. And what we discovered was I had totally gone out a different doorway, and it just landed me somewhere else, and he had been waiting for me 15 minutes on the other side, wondering what had happened to me. So the halls were dark, and they were just very outdated, and it was quite frightening, actually. And that was one of the hospitals that was more inland. It definitely was a big city, but the hospital was super outdated. I don't know if I should just say which one it is. Absolutely. It was Queenborough. Okay. Okay. I don't know how many public hospitals they have in the Queenborough area, but the one we went into, I just was like, oh gosh, I don't ever want to live here and get sick and have to go there. Okay. Where was this one in the city? Where was it located? I'm not really sure. It was one of our explorative visits here. Yeah, I just don't remember which one. But it was a tall one, and it was big, and it was public for sure. Okay. So private hospitals that I have explored were also in similar towns, like Alcobaça, Torres Vedras, Lisbon, Bombral, and Benedita, some of the private ones. And they all seemed a lot nicer, you know? So I still kept playing with the idea of, well, if I live in an area where I like the hospital, do I really need the private health insurance? Well, life just happens, you know? So it was kind of rainy here this winter, you know? And living in Portugal, the rain doesn't really matter that much because it's usually sunny in a day or two. It's just usually great and beautiful out, and I love to ride my bike. I've been riding my bike for, you know, 17 plus years, and I just really enjoy riding my bike. So after we had like four days of intensive rains, I said, well, you know, it's gonna be sunny this week. Maybe it will dry out enough that I can go and ride my bike. Sorry, my kitty is meowing, and I kind of, he's a family member, and if I tell him to go away or not meow, it'll get worse. Let's just meow at the door forever. So we'll just, that's Zen. Zen, please have a seat. It's a good atmosphere. Yeah, okay, so. We're keeping it real here. Yeah, so this is my cat, Zen. He's 16 years old, and he's my manager, basically. Aren't you, Zen? Okay, so after all that rain that we were having, it was, I don't remember, but it was just days of rain, it seemed like forever, but then we had like four great sunny days, and everything started to dry out, and my husband was like, well, maybe we should go up north and go for a walk on the EcoPista, and he's like, and you can bring your bike, and I was like, oh, I don't know if that's a good idea, because, you know, hills and rain and runoff, and maybe I shouldn't do that, you know? And he's like, well, I wanna go, and I'm gonna go for a walk, if you wanna walk or whatever. So me, loving biking as much as I do, I got very tempted, and I was like, ah, throw my bike in the car, I wanna, you know, we'll go. Now, he doesn't ride a bike, I'm the bike rider, so I put my GoPro on my helmet, and I'm all geared up, and I'm ready to go, and he meets me, typically, at checkpoints, so I've got my phone, I try to be as safe as I can with my apps, and, you know, so I get out there, and we determine where's the next spot we're gonna meet. So the Icopista de Volga is up in the north by Aveiro, and- Let's explain what an Icopista is. It would be like a nature path? Would that be the best way to describe it? No, but my bike is road tires, like the really skinny ones, so I can't go on off-paths. Like trail, yeah, trail riding. You have to be through crushed gravel, right, or cement. Yep. So there's two, there's the Icopista de Dau, and those, and the Icopista de Volga, and they're former railway bike paths, they're former railways, turned into bike paths or pedestrian walkways. Yep. So that's what they're about. But it's not like walking next to a highway, just for the listener. No, it is- Through the countryside. Fantastic sensory experience, and it's safe because you're not riding with the cars, and the big 18-wheelers scaring you, and they're barreling down on you, and so you feel safe, and you feel connected with nature, and the smells, I just, if there was smell-o-vision and sense-o-vision, it would be fantastic with my GoPro. And I'm always saying that, I'm like, ah, the eucalyptus, if you guys could just smell this, you know, it's fantastic. The wood, the rain, the earth, I just love it. The cows in the fields, and the sheep are bleeding, and the goats are, whatever goats do, there's a lot of wonderful things going on when you're on those bike paths. So we don't have a lot of those here in Portugal. So you have to go out, search them out. You know, in the states where I was from, I mean, we could easily access those. So for me, it was a big treat, and a big temptation to go. So as I got up there, I'm riding, and I really don't think there was a lot of problems. There was some leaves on the trail, because it was winter, and it had rained. And I was about five kilometers from the end, and my husband and I met up. My GoPro had died, so I took off my helmet, put it in the car, and I took the GoPro off, and I actually thought to myself, do I really want to put the helmet on? It's just 5K more. You know, it's like three miles, 5K. And then something said to me, Christine, put your helmet on, don't be an idiot. Just put it back on. So, okay, I put my helmet back on. And off I go, my husband's gonna meet me at the end, and I came around a little bend, and I saw something shiny, and I was like, what is that in the sun? Is that like wet, or is it oily? What is that? So I slowly started to put my red brake on, and as soon as I did that, whatever I hit was like, I think it was like a silk, like a slimy, I don't know what, but my bike totally shot out from under me. It literally went right to the right. There was no more GoPro, so we didn't get it on tape, which I'm kind of glad, but I don't really want to watch that on replay. But the bike went to the right, and I just was like, in my head said, you're gonna have to roll. Roll, just, you know, good luck. The bike is gone, you're going down. My phone shot off with the bike, because it was attached to the bike, and I just landed on the pavement. And when I did, I gotta say, I didn't know I broke my leg. I actually, you know, rolled over on my right leg, and I started to go to stand, and when I pulled my left leg toward me, and for viewers that are sensitive, this is a trigger warning, I looked at my leg, and I could see the bone pressing through my workout pants, my black pants. They were the black, stretchy yoga pants. And as soon as I saw that, brain said, you're in trouble, you need help. What are you gonna do? And thank God, when I looked up, I saw a big lemon tree and a cement wall, and I thought, well, maybe there's someone there, or maybe not. And if this would have happened deeper in, I really would have been literally screwed, because no one would have heard me scream. Because you were riding solo, essentially. Because your husband was at the checkpoint. You got that right. Okay. So he didn't know at this point that I had fallen. I knew, and no one else knew, but me and God and nature, and the birds that were tweeting above my head. And I was horrified. And I mean, if you wanna hear a lady scream, man, that was a scream. That was a begging scream, like, holy crap. Because I would have been one of those survival people. I would have had to crawl to my bike to get my phone. Like, I, this is bad. That would be my assumption, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know? SIt wouldn't have been pretty. So I know we wanna talk about the healthcare system, so we'll try to get to that. And quickly, a lady came from around her house, and she was like, oh my God, oh my God! And she came running over to me. And thank God, she was just the wonderfulest Portuguese lady that I could have ever had to deal with this situation with. And she got down next to me, and here I am in all kinds of agony, and I'm trying to talk to her in Portuguese, and she said, I speak English. And I was so relieved. And then she's like, if you need to swear, you go ahead. Say the F word, do it! And I was like, what? Like, say crap, and I'm like, crap! So, yeah. And she got, I told her I'm gonna get my phone. I said, please call him. It's the one with the Portuguese flag, and here's my pin, and get him my phone. So, flash forward, my husband's on his way, and I was still crying, holding my leg. And the first bureaucracy really starts with the bombeiro, the fireman, coming to get me. She's on the phone, begging them to come up to the situation, and they're like, well, we'll get there when we can. And that, yeah, exactly. She's like, they're like, we're coming, you know? So, shh, I'm like, where are they, where are they? And so, she called them back, you know, like, come on, let's go, where are you? So, they did get there. To me, it felt like forever. My husband said that they were there when he got there, but some of the stuff I kinda have a hard time recalling. I kinda feel like it was the other way around. I feel like he got there before they did, but he said no. So, I know that he was about maybe 10, 15 minutes away from where I was. First, they had to call him, then he had to process and get himself, put it in the GPS and then get there. So, you know, I can't really give you a total timeline of how long it took him to get there, but once they did get there, they wouldn't give me anything for the pain because they said that I might need surgery. And one of them said to me, told my husband, tell her to stop screaming because it doesn't make it any better. Well, you know, hey, you break your femur and let it push through your body and see if you don't scream a little. So, he was kinda mad about that. So, they finally got me in the ambulance and I almost passed out from the pain. It was just an incredible amount of pain. So, they took me, because I was in Aveda, they took me to Aveda Public Hospital. And there, I was left in the hallway for a while. And it was a very uncomfortable experience because of several reasons. Number one, I was in pain. Number two, I was in a hallway and there was a mother with her two children. And for some reason, it was the little boy that stuck with me and still does. And I'm sorry if I get emotional sometimes talking about this stuff, but I think I am traumatized and certain things get to me. This little boy, the horror on his face of having to watch me. It didn't, in those moments, it didn't even become about me somehow. It was about him. I couldn't help him. And I couldn't help myself, clearly. So, I couldn't help him to be protected from having to see the pain I was going through. I just don't think between the ages of eight and 10, a little boy clinging to his mom, like, what's wrong with that lady? Right, he's scared. Maybe he sees the compound fracture and therefore it scares him worse, sees that you're in pain. Yeah. Totally. I think at this point, maybe there was a sheet over me on the bed and he probably didn't know. My leg was still doubled up. Like, I had my leg still, it was bent, because I would not let it go. I was hugging my leg for dear life. No, I was gonna move that. All the way in the ambulance and everything, I made them like, it ain't moving, it ain't touching it until the doctor sees it. So, once the doctor did come in, they took me in a room. I can't remember how they got it x-rayed, but what I do remember is that they were going to stabilize it. So, without medication, they stabilized it. And what that meant was that the doctor- I don't wanna ask how that felt. You know, Josh, it definitely didn't feel good. It was one of the, it was the most, I had a child, I have a daughter, and when I had my baby, I was in labor for quite a long time and I could not deliver her naturally, so I had to have a C-section. And both the labor pains were horrible and the recovery from the C-section was also horrible, but I'd rather do that. I'd rather do that. Because, yeah, that pain, when that doctor just said, hold her other leg and hold her, we're gonna push your leg down. My husband said he heard my screams through walls and doors when they pushed my leg down. So, once he got the leg down, he was gonna stabilize it by putting a cast. So they casted me from ankle to hip, and I didn't have much to say about that, but every time they moved my leg to go under it, it was painful. Sure. And, you know, it started to harden pretty quickly. Once I was in the hallway, I started to freak out because I'm like, well, what if this cast starts to swell and I'm all casted up now because I could feel myself swelling. So I was crying and the nurse came over, she goes, no, no, no, look, it's like they left the gauze on the inner part. They didn't tighten you here. And I was like, oh, okay, phew. So I was glad about that, but they said that they couldn't operate on me there because I don't live there. I was like, what? What do you mean? No, I'm a resident. No, I have my residency card. And, you know, no, here's, what do you mean? No, you have to go to the town to conceal you where you live. So if you live in the central coast of Portugal and your town is Alcabaza or whatever, you have to go to Laidia Hospital. And I was like, oh, okay. So when's that gonna happen? Well, we're trying to get an ambulance set up so we can move you. So my husband tells me, okay, yeah, they're gonna move you and you're gonna have your surgery tomorrow in Laidia so they're gonna give you something for the pain. And I was like, okay, but honestly, I don't remember they gave me anything for the pain. It was, you know, I was just, felt like I was always in pain, you know. So here we go, they're gonna jostle me around again. I just remember constant crying and crying and stress and fear and just, you know, that little boy still, like I said, stuck with me and just bad, bad. And I'll never forget the scream and the push down. And we're done. Can I ask you something real quick about your transportation? So the fireman, essentially, the bombero showed up. Is that normal in more rural settings that they're the ones that act as the EMTs? Because I also see ambulances and EMTs, you know, flying around the city quite often. Of course, but when you have an emergency, I guess automatically they send the bomberos. They don't, I've heard that you could request a private, but I mean, obviously, if you are in a traumatic situation, you're not thinking, oh, excuse me, could you please call the boutique for me? Because, you know, my nails and my hair, you know, you don't care. You just, you want to go. So yeah, they send, they don't send any private anything. For anything emergency, they always take you to the public. Okay. So we went to Lady Hospital. I was scheduled for surgery. I waited in the hallway again. And I guess, you know, in the morning, they finally gave me the surgery. I woke up. I was told that I had a rod or a nail in my femur to stabilize the femur with four screws. I had two screws that were toward the top of the hip and two in the bottom ball part of the femur. And that I would be able to put weight as tolerated, that in a couple of days, I should be able to put a little weight. And it was going to be, everything was going to be great. So of course I'm thinking, oh good, phew, I'm going to survive. I'm going to, you know, walk again someday, because that's, you know, a big fear. Am I going to even be able to walk, you know? So in the room that I woke up in, if we can just maybe talk about a little atmosphere stuff, like the hospital itself. You want to talk about that, Josh, a little bit? Yeah. So the hospital itself, I want to start on a positive. And I can tell you that they had quality people there. There were really some good quality people there. The nurses, there was one nurse in particular, her name was Dina, and she was stellar. I mean, if anybody was dropping the ball anywhere, she was picking it up, putting it back in their hand, and telling them what to do. So they were giving me good care, care-wise. But, you know, if you can get past the room and what you're seeing in the atmosphere, well, you know, I looked at it like, well, maybe I'm getting good care now. So who cares that the TV that is in front of me for the next four days literally has no picture on it. It's black. But I can hear Portuguese TV coming out of it. I could hear the news in Portuguese. I could hear them playing games or music. There's a festa somewhere. I could hear it, but I just couldn't see it, okay? On the right of me was a poor elderly woman that had more than 12 fractures in her body. And she was pressing that buzzer and pressing that buzzer and long pressing that buzzer, and just really uncomfortable. And then on the left of me was another elderly woman that had many fractures, but she was quite elderly, and she just basically was there. She didn't speak, and her family members would come in and shuffle around her, and it was sad. You could tell she was quite on in years. So I was in the middle, and I quickly learned that if I needed something, I pressed the buzzer, boop, quick, a quick boop, boop, and they knew, like, oh, it's Christine, because she's not all day long pressing and every five minutes. So they would come rather quickly for me, which was great. So that part of the experience, it wasn't, like, horrible, horrible, but atmosphere-wise, I don't think the public provided a good aesthetic. That's the best way I could say it. Now, I don't have a severe allergic reaction to fish, but I don't like it. I am a chicken girl all the way. Love me my chicken. I will eat tofu and veggies and all that, and beef. I'm a little picky. I'm American, and I kind of like what I like and how I like it, so, you know, that's what I eat. And so I asked my diet to have no fish, and I will tell you, they brought me fish no less than three times. And had I been allergic to it, it would have been horrible, because sometimes you don't know. Like, you put the spoon, and you're like, is that, what is that? Is that fishy, or is that, like, is it, what is it? Is it green stuff? I don't know. So, three times, I mean, literal portions of bacalhau, and I would open it up, and I would be like, really, really? You know, and the nurse got mad one day. She's like, this girl can't have fish. Why are you people bringing her fish? And then the dietician, she's, like, reading the paper, like, well, what does it say? And she's, it clearly says no fish. Oh, desculpa. You know, a lot of desculpa. You get a lot of, oops, oops, oops. So, they brought it back, and they bring me something else, and I'm just gonna tell you that the public food is super sub par. I am not gonna pull any punches. It was bad. They brought some turkey that was so dried out. It was, just didn't look like it was something that I would serve my cat, and I just wouldn't. It was dried out. I mean, it looked like turkey butt. It was just not good. Oh, no. Yeah, it was not, it was an appetizing looking guy. It just was not appetizing looking. So, I was glad to get out of there. You know, my husband brought me McDonald's, God bless him, and I was like, oh, Chicken Delights, man, gosh, I love you. You know, he'd bring me stuff, oranges. I was hoarding apples in my drawer. That's how it went down. They'd bring me, like, those Maria Balasha cookies. Oh, they'll save those for later. So, I survived the diet there, but I mean, maybe, I don't know, maybe Portuguese people would be like, yeah, but that's how we like our food. We like it bland, nothing on it, you know. You're in a hospital, what did you expect? Your diet is supposed to be bland. Okay, fine, but it was quite a contrast to what I experienced in the private, which I'll get to, because I had to go there. Because, unfortunately, although I thought everything was going smoothly, I was able to leave in four days, I went home, and I thought everything was okay, but after a week, I mean, you know, you have this huge surgery, you're thinking, yeah, it's gonna hurt for a while, right? At least a week or two. So, what do you expect? Of course you're in pain. But the pain started to be more questionable, and as we started to look at our documents, we realized that the doctor's orders were for me to have a follow-up visit in four to six weeks. And we looked at the paperwork, and the paperwork said 12 weeks. That's three months. So, who dropped the ball there? Why does this paperwork say I don't get seen for three months? I mean, usually you have a surgery, the doctor or surgeon wants to check you a week later or something, right? That's not even. So, my husband gets on the phone, I call Serenity, well, I didn't call anybody, my husband called Serenity, and Martha's calling me, she's one of the nurses there at Serenity, and she's my nurse, and she's calling me, how are you? As a matter of fact, she was so fabulous, I was lying in the ambulance being taken to the hospital, and Martha was calling me, because your husband just told me you fell, and oh my God, she was like holding my hand. So, she knew I wasn't happy with the food and stuff. But anyway, she started to get involved in trying to move this appointment up, because now we're concerned about this pain. So, long story short, it turns out that we were able to get a sooner appointment, but I had to go to another town, not the town where I had the surgery, but Bumbarral, and I was seen by a public doctor, who had me get the X-ray, and at that time said to me, I'm sorry to tell you that the surgery is not good. The nail has now dropped down into your knee. The screw is backing out at the bottom of the femur, it's being pushed out, and the two screws are now chewing through your bone, and this is why the nail is dropping into your knee. So, that was pretty horrible to hear. Absolutely. I'm healing, you know? So, she's like, I'm gonna call you in two days, you can't stay like that. Now, mind you, I was gonna start some physical therapy, because originally the doctor said, hey, you can do weight is tolerated in a couple of days. So, at the hospital they had me, come on now, you can walk a little with the walker, and this is how you do it, and I'm like, okay, all right, yeah, I can do that at home. So, of course, at home I was trying to ambulate with the walker a little bit. Putting the weight is tolerated. Well, how did I know that the pain that I was experiencing wasn't just because I was trying to make these efforts? It turned out, you know, it's because I got a dang nail in my, the rod has gone into my knee. Right. So, right away she says to me, oh no, no physical therapy. I was supposed to start the day after I saw the doctor. She's, put the brakes on that, no, stop. She's like, I will call you in two days. Two days came and went, gosh, no phone call from the doctor. Now I was like crying again and again, because I'm thinking like, oh my god, I have to have another surgery. o, we're waiting and waiting for this public doctor to call us back and nothing is happening. So, almost a week has gone by. Martha is calling from Serenity, Dr. Michael from Serenity is like, what is going on? Like, this poor girl, like I'm showing them these x-rays, that I now have access to, and it shows this rod clearly in my knee. So, we managed to get nowhere, basically with the public. And I was so stressed out that after about a week, I said, that's it, we need to just go to private. My husband was encouraging me, this is just bad, bad, bad, bad, all the way around. Let's go and make an appointment at a public hospital, I mean private hospital. So. And if you can remind us, where was all this taking place? In Lidia, or? It was all taking place in Lidia, because that's where that surgery was performed. Yeah, Aveda only had a small part in it, because that's where the accident occurred. They really couldn't do much for me, right? So, this was all, you know, my experience there in Lidia. So, you know, we went on the SNS website, which is the national healthcare website here in Portugal. And it did show, after like a week and a half, that I was actually in fact registered, that I needed some sort of a surgery, but I made a few notes here, like basically that for my type of surgery, that I would have a wait of about 40 to 60 days, give or take 15 days. I was like something like number 14 on the list. In the private system? No, in the public. Sorry, in the public system. In the public system. So here we are with this knowledge of knowing the doctor never bothered, it was such a serious thing to call us, and I'm over there like a squirrel on the computer, trying to find my SNS account, like did she say anything, is there any notes? And I found that. So I'm here, I'm number 14? Like really? I got a nail in my knee. I'm number 14. Yeah, what do the other 13 people ahead of you have going on? Exactly, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's gotta be mad. Right, and I'm like, this is why sometimes you see a lot of people, they're kind of limping, you know? Right. Right, so, and then you start doing the math, and you're like, wait, 40 to 60 days, give or take 15 days, so wait. So it could be a month, or it could be 75 days, which would be, what, two and a half months from now? And then what? You see me again, or do you actually do the surgery? I just was like beside myself. Yeah. So, at this point, I called to Hospital Deluge in Lisbon. I told them what was going on, and they gave me an appointment the next day. So, I have insurance, so I have insurance. So, I went there, I saw Dr. Avila, and he was an orthopedic surgeon, and I had read online some of his bio, and I knew he would speak English. So, he took one look at my knee and said, well, in my X-ray, and he said, well, I'm gonna take my own X-ray, so I'm gonna have to go downstairs. Went downstairs, and he was just nodding, and his head was like, looking at that X-ray, and he's like, hold on a minute. He got up from his chair, he walked across the hall to his colleague, and then he said, I'm going to talk to my knee specialist, as he walked out the door. So, he came back with that knee specialist while I was sitting there in the wheelchair, and they didn't hesitate at all. And he's like, this is Dr. Luis Miguel Barbosa, and he's a knee specialist, and we would like to know how soon you can have this surgery done. And I was like, as soon as you can do it. So, this was like on a Wednesday, and Dr. Luis looked at me and said, is Saturday good? Saturday, who works on Saturday? Saturday's play day, you don't work on Saturday. I was like, really? You're gonna operate on me on Saturday? And he goes, yeah, this can't wait. He goes, I can't believe that you were put back together like that. He goes, you don't do a break like yours so close to the knee, and it was a commutative fracture, which means it was kind of like crushed, it was like a little more going on there that needed a little more security than just two screws at the bottom. So, his opinion was that was incorrectly performed. So, he said, okay, he was gonna do that on Saturday for me. So, on February 18th, because we wound up waiting, and the original surgery was on the 5th of January, but because of all of the waiting and the stuff with the public and trying to get my follow-up appointment, it ended up being that date that I got in there. So, the surgery was done, and I was very grateful that at least I had a chance, because I felt like with the other system, if I would have kept waiting, I really would have been in trouble. And that was more confirmed to me when I woke up from surgery, and Dr. Luis came in, and he said to me, you were actually healing. Your bone was fusing. I had to cut through the bone to fix the bone. And he said that there was a lot of damage. He said it was quite a demanding surgery, actually, because he had to cut through that bone and try to put these fragments together. He said that I also had a shard of bone that was pushing through my thigh, and that it was like a razor, like a piece of sharp glass. So, every time I'd try to flex my quad, that would just be piercing me. And he goes, I don't know why they didn't take that out. He said, but I took it out for you. I was like, well, thank you. So, I was really relieved that I knew I was in good hands. But he had to cut my thigh open. I basically got cut open like a hamburger bun up the side of my thigh. And I had, I think it was 80 staples through my thigh, through my knee, to fix this problem. And I have a plate now. There are seven screws in the femur head, and five up the side into the plate. He told me I could not bear weight on my leg for three months. So, the other instruction of, hey, go for a walk in a couple days, so weight is tolerated. That, no, he said, absolutely not. He said, if this does not take, it would be a tragedy. It would be a tragedy. So, I really was sticking to them doctor's orders. And I was really lucky that I had Martha to help me in this process, because her and Dr. Michael were stellar when it came to coordinating my health insurance. Because if you can imagine not knowing how much a big surgery like that is gonna cost you within the public system, it was scary. Because what if the insurance said, no, we won't approve it? Yeah, I needed to know that they were gonna approve it. So, they like- In the private system, you mean? In the private system, yeah. Because even though you have insurance, like, you're just like assuming that everything is gonna be covered. Right, that's right. You have to know, yeah, you have to know, like, what does your policy really cover? Are you covered for stuff like that or not? So, they went, they have a partner there with Serenity that they partnered with my insurance company, which is Asisa. And they were able to talk to their partner broker, broker partner rather, and get everything confirmed for me that it would in fact be covered. And my co-pay would only be 500 euros for everything. Including four day hospital stay. Now, for those in the United States, you know that would not happen, okay? So, it was a relief to know that. Yeah, can I ask you about your private insurance level? Like, usually these insurance companies kind of have tiers of coverage. So, where was yours? We're premium. Okay. We're premium. Good. Yeah, we're premium coverage. So, and I wanna say our premium we're paying, it's something like, I think it's 187 euros for the both of us a month. Oh, fantastic. I think you're paying less than we pay. We're three, but yeah, I think we pay like 230 or 250. I don't know, it just comes straight out of our bank account every month. Yeah. So, that was really, really to know that. So, I was, now I'm like, and when I got checked in there, there was no little boys or girls in the hallway looking at me in horror. There's nobody in the hall. It was spacious. It was- Well lit, white walls. Yes, all the light bulbs were working. The TVs were working. In fact, I had a huge flat screen TV in my private room. There were no elderly women suffering beside me with the long press for help. It was just me in my space where I could just cry all I wanted to or laugh if my visits came and made me laugh. I just, it was a private room. And in that private room, there was storage cabinets. I had a private bathroom with a shower in there and my own shower chair. And it was a bathroom sink, and there was a sink on the outside of the room for the nurses to use to clean things. And that TV was fantastic. There was a recliner for my husband. There was, I had a view of the Colombo Mall, which to be honest, I wasn't in the mood to watch people go shopping and having a good time. I just kind of was miserable. And I was like, I don't want to see those people walking. I'm jealous. I was jealous of everybody's femurs. I really was. I'm like, they got good legs. You've never appreciated a femur more in your life. You got that right. Now when I'm in the car, my husband will take me for my airing out, you know? And I'm sitting there and these bikers, I'm going to be known as the lady who blesses everyone's femurs because I'm like, oh, be careful with your femurs. God bless those femurs. It definitely traumatized me. So the experience there in the private was significantly different and better, I got to say. It was well worth the money. I wish I didn't have to do it, but I had to do it. And the food was right. The food was good. No one tried to, you know, kill me with a fish allergy or not. And they just never brought fish. So that was not a thing. It never was an issue, right? And the food was appetizing looking. And I just, I didn't have a lot of appetite because now I've been through two surgeries. I'm exhausted and traumatized and all that. So a lot of times things just, I just didn't want to eat them, but they looked really good. And so, I mean, at least if it looks good, it encourages you a little. But the dieticians noticed that. They came in and they're like, oh, you're not really eating that much, you know? So have this protein drink because you need that. And they were bringing me these really nice like strawberry drinks and vanilla drinks and stuff. And then it got to where they said, what do you like? And I'm like, well, I like scrambled eggs and I like fruit. So they started to bring me trays of things that I really, were gentle for me basically to get me going and start eating. Right, it's almost like an encouragement. Exactly. Right, they're encouraging you to eat because they know that you need it for your body to, yeah, recover. Cool. They brought me like scrambled eggs and these nice pieces of toast and coffee. And I'm like, now we're talking, you know? Yeah, and although it would take me literally like almost all day to get through that, Sure. Like the lunch people would come and I'd be like, oh no, stop, you know? And they would give me like so much bread. I mean, it was like five pieces of bread a day. I was getting croissants and they were like individually wrapped. And I'm like, who can eat this many croissants? Good Lord. My daughter, Valencia loves croissants. Is it good? Yeah. So, but it was certainly a different experience all the way around, you know? The lunch people were coming and trying to feed me and I'm still eating breakfast and same with dinner. So that was great. So, you know, we kept going with the public in the background because we were just curious, like how long is this really gonna take? So we got a letter in the mail. I was already at home healing for about a month when I finally got a letter that said to me, hey, we're really busy here in Laidia Hospital, so we're not going to be able to do your surgery, but here's a list of other places that may be available. We could still get to you eventually, but there's still like another month or so, but these private hospitals could take you with this voucher. And I was like, oh, so now they're gonna send me to a private hospital anyway. But the catch was that all the private hospitals still had a two month wait that they gave me the voucher for. Wild. It's wild. So as we speak right now, I think I might've been scheduled this week or next week for said surgery. And like I mentioned, my bone would have already been fused far beyond what would have been normal. Who knows what they would have said to me when I got there. Like, well, we can't do anything now. Who knows? And why would I want to? Can you imagine? So if I had the surgery like next week and then they're like, okay, now you've got three more months of no weight bearing, and then you're gonna have to start, right now, as we speak, I am allowed to bear 40 kilos of weight on my left leg. So that equals about 90 pounds that I'm able to put force on here. So I'm in physical therapy now, and I'm going three times a week for that. And the physical therapy sessions that I'm doing, they are within a private facility. But that was also a problem in the public because I'm entitled as a resident to have that physical therapy through the public. So Martha from Serenity, she tried to help me to set that up. Someone was supposed to come to our house for one of these sessions. They never showed up. And that would be backing up a little bit with the previous surgery and the physical therapy. But it didn't come to fruition through the public. They didn't show up. And then she's like, you know what? Let's just kind of leave this therapy at the public's hospitals. We have your name put in for three different hospitals. Let's see, they're all kind of like in 20 minutes of you. Let's see who comes through first. Well, they were not coming through and she kept pressing them. And like, when are you gonna have something? And oh, it could be a month. We're all backed up. So here I was with a prescription from my surgeon saying he wanted me to start physical therapy and put 10 kilos of weight on my foot. And so we're running around with this prescription and no one can take me. So private was gonna cost me, now see this is where your insurance is important because if you don't know how much they'll cover, private will charge you, in my area, they were charging between 35 to $40 per session. And my doctor wanted me to go five times a week. So quick math, five times 40 is 200. 200, four times a week, that's 800 euros. Who's got 800 euros a month just laying around to just do your physical therapy? Not me, I'm sure some people do, but I'm just not, I don't happen to be that person. So that was really another devastating thing to me. I'm like, well what if I can't afford the physical therapy? So Martha's helping with Serenity, she's like, okay, your insurance does cover that and as long as there's reasons why it can be extended. And I'm like, okay, great. So off I go with my handy prescription to another private facility and they see me. But here in Portugal, they don't just take your surgeon's prescription. You have to be seen by their private doctors to verify if you need this or not. So I had to pay another 15 euros to get a second prescription, which I already have, for them to say, oh yeah, you got a broken leg and you need physical therapy. I'm like, okay. So the doctor said, yeah, that's urgent. You need physical therapy. And I was like, okay, great, when can we start? He goes, oh, we have about a month and a half to wait, two months to wait here. So now Martha and my husband, they're frantically calling places trying to help me get this therapy. And in the end, I ended up having to go to Panish, which is about a 40 minute drive for me every other day. So I can't go those five days. The doctor said, well, optimally it would be five days, but three would do it. If anything less than three, it's not gonna help you. So I do it at home in between, but I suck it up and every other day we go for that 35 minute ride down and I get the physical therapy. But I gotta tell you that it's fantastic because they spend three hours with me for three euros because my insurance is covering it. Okay, wow, okay. Right now we're seeking approval for extended treatments because typically my insurance policy covers 12 sessions and 12 sessions just isn't gonna be enough for me. So now you have to put in for approval for more. And it does say that it's not limited as long as there are reasons why I need it. And clearly there are reasons why I need it because I can't walk. Right. So that is pretty much my situation. So I'm sure you can appreciate how scary navigating that whole public thing was for me. I don't know if maybe there's a- Absolutely, well, I mean, I'm so glad that you had help, not just your husband, but you had a company that was an advocate for you. You did have your private insurance, which most of the private insurance companies have some sort of hotline you can call to get some communication in English, which is helpful when you've just moved here. Like you said, you've been here just a year now to have the level of Portuguese for the complexity of situation. It's just not realistic, right? Exactly. So yeah, we're really glad to hear that you're getting the proper care now, even though you had to go through some serious trauma. Yeah, my goal right now is literally just to walk. And I'm hoping and praying that it'll be a walk without a limp. I'm a very active person. I mean, I'm always walking and I'm always doing things around my house while I was, and it's frustrating to just be constantly not being able to get up and having to rely on someone else and being far away from your family. And now it makes us pause and think, well, gee, that notion you had of not having insurance, is that still a thing? Absolutely not. After what I went through, I would highly recommend anyone who's considering to not have that insurance, which actually, Josh, you mentioned that yesterday in you guys' video about sometimes wondering about your expenses if you could just live with the public. Don't do it, my friend. Don't do it. Because you never know when life just slams you with something. And I would like to save that extra 200 euros a month too, but it's really a savings when push comes to shove. And even when we were calling our insurance company trying to get that approval, thank God we did have Serenity to help us there because we weren't getting those speedy responses and having them in the background, I think in having Dr. Michael kind of say, hey, come on, what's up? I think it really was instrumental in getting me the care that I needed more expeditiously. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, Christine, we really hope that you have a full recovery. I really hope to hear a success story that you get back on the bike. Who knows how long that'll take, but really hope that that happens. So that also means walking without a limp and just continuing to enjoy your Portugal experience here. Thank you so much for coming on and spending this time with us and telling us the contrast that I think we all needed to hear from the majority of people talk about their experience in the healthcare system here in general, whether it's public or private as a really glowing one. But we do know that there are situations like yours that happen quite often. Oftentimes happens to Portuguese people who don't have access to private healthcare and their story doesn't end with a happy ending. So we really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Oh, absolutely. No problem. I'm glad I could do it and I hope that it kind of opens people's eyes a little bit, but know this, that the Portuguese people overall, they're really good, kindhearted people. And I think they're just, some of them are stuck in a system that they have really not a whole lot of choice over. And that goes for the doctors and the nurses that care for us in those public hospitals as well. And they're not infallible. I mean, something bad could have happened to me in the private system too. I'm not somebody who is just rose colored glasses on. I know bad things happen everywhere. This just happens to be my personal experience and I'm glad that I could share it with you guys. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. No problem. Go ahead, Josh. Yep, okay. We have one more question that we ask all of our guests. So if you wouldn't mind answering this, just in a couple of sentences, if that's okay. At ExpensiveWare, we believe that living abroad transforms lives. How has living abroad transformed your life? Wow. I think that I have a greater appreciation of everything around me, whether it's just the sky and the sea and the air right to the people that I see in front of me. I think it's opened up my eyes to a lot of things that I forgot. Because in the United States, I think we're really afraid of just going to the darn store. And I feel like it's really opened me up in a way that I can just breathe and feel okay. Again, because I was raised in the 70s, I'm a little older. And 70s and 80s, you kind of felt carefree and I just don't think it's quite like that anymore. So I think coming abroad has made me realize that there is a bigger world out there in front of us. And I think even if I decided to not stay here forever, that I'm really glad that I did come here and I'm really glad that I've done it a couple times really. I've learned a lot. I had a lot of fun.