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I'm really excited to dive into what it's like for someone who's only been here for about a month. Because I think that there are a lot of listeners out there that are going to be able to resonate with kind of the feelings and emotions that you've experienced over the past, let's say, four months, and people that are in the thick of what you're experiencing now being here for about five, six weeks, whatever. So before we dive all the way in, we have to know kind of where you all started. Like, where did this journey begin, and why did you want to move abroad? That's a good question. I may have been the instigator here, since I've always kind of wanted to live abroad. And I actually, a long time ago in high school, my family reconnected with my Italian family. And so we got to meet them for the first time. They came here. We went to Italy. And that kind of sparked an interest in languages and cultures and wanting to travel and explore. And so in the back of my mind, I always knew I wanted to live abroad. And then I kind of, over the years, prodded David to be interested in it and explore it. And little by little, Portugal came on the scenes. And not Italy. And not Italy. Yeah, that's a good question. I think so that kind of goes into why we chose Portugal. And I think the D7 process, or D7 visa process, was appealing to us, requirements. And also, even the path to citizenship was very interesting for both of us. Portugal, with being five years to be able to apply for citizenship, was attractive. I think in Italy, it's around 10. I'd have to check that. Yeah, it was definitely the idea of getting EU citizenship and then having the flexibility later was appealing. Yeah, yeah, that mobility and being able to get it in a shorter time span than most European countries is super appealing. And I think it's one of the whys that people have. But David, I'm curious to know from your standpoint, what are the whys that you have? Since Nick kind of had this experience with family in Italy, what started to draw you apart from your partner pushing you in that direction? Well, I think for me, especially after we had made our first trip to Portugal, the overall slower pace of life, less stressful culture really spoke to me. That's something I'm very much looking forward to getting more and more away from the high stress, fast-paced lives that we, unfortunately, I think many people in America have. We certainly had work stress, just too fast a pace of living for us. And so I think that was the main why for me I wanted to live abroad, was a slower pace of life. OK. And what were some of the things as you started to research Portugal? What were some of the things that drew you into Portugal as being that place apart from the five-year pathway to citizenship and maybe the slower pace of life? Because I think a lot of Southern Europe has that appeal, whether it's south of France or Spain or Italy or Greece. All those countries have a similar kind of slower pace of life. But what was it about Portugal that was like, yeah, this is the place? Well, I think there's a lot of things for me. After we took two, I think what people call scouting trips, one where we toured the entire country. We tried to hit as many cities as we could. And one where we focused primarily just on Lisbon and Porto. We kind of narrowed those down to the two cities that we thought would be the best match for us. And I think we really appreciate the culture, the food, the climate. There's so many wonderful things to love about Portugal. But also, we love to travel. That's a real passion for us. And there's a lot of things on our list in Europe that are close by Portugal that makes it a great hub for launching out and getting to do some of the travel that we haven't been able to do living on the west coast of California. So that was a big draw for me. And it's also a place where we can use our resources to do the things we want, like travel. Rather than paying for some of the other European capitals, the cost of living is just significantly higher. And Lisbon and Porto both still seem to have a more reasonable cost of living that will let us put our money towards travel and other things. OK, well, speaking of cost of living, how have you found it? I know that you're only a month into your settling period. And the settling period can take people anywhere between a month up to six months. But how have you found things as you've arrived when it feels like Lisbon is at its peak in terms of cost, especially on the housing side? How do you find the cost of living right now? I've been surprised on the cost of living specifically about apartments. Because of course, we are in a temporary apartment right now. We're staying where we're going to be right now for five months. And as I'm looking out what you're going to get for your money here in Lisbon, I am surprised by the cost of living. Now, having said that, we are coming from the Bay Area in San Francisco. And so compared to that, of course, pretty much anything looks reasonable. But compared to when we started the research into Lisbon and Porto, it did seem like prices were much more reasonable than they are now. OK, and Nick, what was kind of the price difference between the Bay Area and Lisbon? Like, how much of a difference are we talking in terms of housing? Is it like four times cheaper or half as expensive? Yeah, I think more in line with the four. Even could be up to five times cheaper. OK, so the prices here aren't a shock necessarily to you, whereas maybe to some other people that live in smaller towns or cities in the US might actually be like, whoa, this is more expensive than my town is in the US. Is that right? Exactly, yeah. And that was part of the appeal, the lower cost of living, but the higher quality of life, I feel like. And that balance was important to us. And in terms of adjustment period, I think we had previously come to Portugal twice, and those trips were kind of like research trips. So we started to get an idea of what the rents cost and what food costs. And the last time we visited was about a month in the summer. And when we got back to the United States, I felt like we already had reverse culture shock, because we were so used to the price of groceries here. And then we went to the grocery store in the US, and it was like my jaw dropped. I was like, wait, we're paying this much for bread? So yeah. And it's not even nice bread, is it? Exactly. Not even like that nice Portuguese bread you can get here. OK, so what's a grocery bill every week? I assume that maybe you shop every week or so. How has it been running for you so far? We go pretty frequently. Every few days, we kind of just get what we want for dinner and maybe the next day. So we like to go pretty frequently. So it could run anywhere from 5 euros for a quick roasted chicken and a veggie, or if we want to stock up, it can be more like 20 or 30 or 40. OK. Do you have a medium to large fridge, or is it a small fridge? I think it's a pretty good size. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a small one. OK. Because the first place that Kaylee and I lived when we first moved here, it was like a quasi-service department, maybe similar to the situation that you all are in. But definitely, they were very lean with their design in terms of space and everything, very efficient. But the fridge was akin to a college dorm room fridge. So we were at the grocery store every other day, every third day. So I totally feel you on what you're saying here. I will say this. I think it does get better where people are shopping on maybe a weekly basis after you get about six months to a year in. You kind of figure out, OK, this is what I need for a week. This is what will last. Because I don't know if you've noticed this, but produce seems to break down faster here. Do you feel that as well? Yes, absolutely. But this idea of shopping on a more regular basis is not new to us. This is our habit in San Francisco as well. Oh, perfect. It was very normal for us to go to the store, the grocery store, every two days to a local market on the way home to pick up what we're going to make for dinner that night. That was something we're already used to doing. Oh, OK. Brilliant. OK. So do you have your local? And that's not specific to the Bay Area. We just don't plan ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, we definitely eat fresher that way, right? When you don't have foods that are able to have a shelf life of 4 and 1 1⁄2 years. And you know that it goes bad after a few days, because it naturally goes bad after a few days. And that's cool. Have you met your local veg and fruit person or your butcher? Or have you gotten that connected yet? Or do you still need a bit of time? I think we still need some time on that. I think we certainly know our starting to get to a lease by site or the people in the local grocery store here on our block. I have not found, I've been on this search for a month now, I've not found where I'm going to get my vegetables long term. There's some that look good, but I haven't found that place that's perfect yet. And I'll be honest with you, I haven't had the courage to go into the butcher shop yet, only because of my language barrier. I'm not quite ready to discuss cuts of meat professionally yet. But I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, I totally understand that. I've done it a few times myself, where I've tried to go in and just speak Portuguese. And I find, honestly, the butchers, as long as they're not busy on the day, man, they're patient. And they'll explain cuts, and they'll make sure. I think if you're interested in getting something quality, they'll make sure that they get you exactly what you're looking for. It's pretty cool in that way. And I feel almost like my grandparents, in the sense that I'm sure that they had their local butcher. Whereas maybe my parents' generation, and obviously for me, it's very supermarket, where you just walk through, you pick up a plastic or styrofoam container that's been wrapped in a bunch of saran wrap, and that's your meat. There's no relationship with who's actually getting the meat for you. Do you feel that connection with people in that way that happens a bit more here in Portugal? I do, and I think that's something that we also were looking for as well, to be able to meet people in our neighborhood and develop those relationships with local grocers and a local cheese shop and all of that. So that is definitely something high on our list. And we've been trying to visit as many local places in our neighborhood as possible, and also force ourselves to speak Portuguese as much as possible. So that's been a huge help as well. That was the next question I was going to ask, is as you're adapting to things, what have you been doing to help you adapt? So you've just touched on language there. Do you have any recommendations on how to learn, and how's your journey going with that? Yes, so far I feel like it's been going pretty well. We did, I think, quite a bit of upfront learning before coming here, which has served us well. Me in particular, I like learning foreign languages, and I've studied other Romance languages in the past. So that's definitely been a huge aid for me, learning Portuguese. And I think David has been doing really good as well. He started basically from scratch, but his consistency and everything has definitely paid off. So we're both able to at least do the small chit-chats at stores, and for the most part, we're successful in getting them to stay in Portuguese and not switch to English. That's been a win, I guess. It's definitely a win. Well done. Because it's so fast when they switch from Portuguese to English, in Lisbon specifically. I find that to be a place where it's just like, ah, we speak English better than you speak Portuguese. Let's just do this in English. Well done. Good for you. Go ahead, David. I was just going to say, we live in Benfica. We actually live in the south of English to Benfica. And it's a little more residential here. So we're not in what you would consider a touristy part of Lisbon. And so it's not a given that everybody in every store is going to be able to speak English. And so there is a very cute little coffee shop right at the corner where we live that I've gone down to several mornings. And nobody in that coffee shop speaks English that I can tell. And that's been great for me, particularly when I go by myself and Nick's not there. That's been wonderful for me that I'm in a situation where I must communicate with them in Portuguese. It's always been pretty, but it works. That's good. Do you find yourself relying on Nick, maybe because he's more advanced? Absolutely. I chicken out all the time. And he has started pulling back at grocery stores to insist that I speak with people, because it's so easy to retreat and let him handle the interaction. And of course, that's not good for me. Yeah, this is something super common among couples, is that one will be a little more linguistically talented compared to the other. And then that person that is not so good will rely on the one that is better. And then no progression happens. So it's good that you go and you try it out. And it's definitely good that you have a cafe that you feel comfortable speaking Portuguese in and that you can practice there. It's some of the best places to learn, honestly, and practice is the cafes. I think what's helped us a lot is even from day one when we landed, I always knew I could fall back on English. And I wanted to, because it was, frankly, just scary. Feeling like, OK, I'm not going to understand what someone says back to me. But I think we did a good job of forcing ourself to give it a try. And I think even though we've only been here a month, we're so used to doing those conversations in Portuguese that now it's starting to just feel normal. Automatic. Every time it's less and less scary. And so now we feel, at least I do, I feel like a sense of accomplishment. So that's definitely been helpful. Well done. Well, we kind of jumped into already living in Lisbon and in Portugal. So we jumped ahead. So I want to go back, actually, to the moving process that you all have. You alluded to earlier doing the D7 and that you're on the West Coast. So you went through San Francisco. How was that process? You didn't go through the process that long ago since you've only been here for the past month. So what were some things that you noticed? Were there any difficulties, any nerves involved with how the set appointment went? Could you give us insight on that? Sure. I would say to start with that our experience through San Francisco has been very easy. And we've had no problems along the way. And I know that's not true of everybody. I know a lot of people who've gone to San Francisco have had at least major delays with the processing of the visa application through BFS, the partner, the external partner that processes those applications. We got lucky. And so we spent, I would say, probably about a month putting together our packages in earnest. You, of course, have to start long before that to get your bank account open and funded and your NIF and lay the groundwork. But I would say I started in earnest on the applications about a month out from the February 1st appointment. And we were approved in about 68 days after that. And there are many people that I've heard from online in different social media forums who applied months before that and are still waiting. And I can't explain that. I don't know why an application in November or December would take so much longer than the application that was submitted in February. But the process went like clockwork. We used our resources, some from expats everywhere. We used one of your courses. We used some other online resources. And there were no surprises in our application process. OK, great. We knew exactly what they needed. And we were in and out of there, I think, I would say about a half hour, maybe. Yeah, I think it was pretty straightforward. But at least I felt very nervous because we didn't know if we had all the right documents, 100%. So there was definitely that going in. And yeah, not knowing if we'd be approved in time because we actually had plane tickets already. And so that was another stressor that we thought we had to buy the plane tickets as part of the visa application. But it turned out we didn't need them. That's changed, yeah. If we were going to give anybody advice on that T7 process, if you don't add that extra stressor on there, let the process play out and then book your travel. And that was a huge stressor for us, whether or not we were going to have to cancel those flights. Or get a temporary passport and fly home when it was complete. Fly back to the United States when it was complete. OK, great. And you felt like you got the course through us. You felt like that course had you prepared in terms of the documentation and the timeline of things to get you to that SEP appointment and then on here to Portugal. Yes, I believe it was called the guide. I apologize for not having the name of that course in front of me right now. No, no, no, it's OK. It's just our D7, like moving to Portugal guide. Moving to Portugal guide, that's it. Thank you. We also joined, we had some online communities where we were able to talk to other people about their experiences, which was very helpful. That's kind of a real time, if nothing else, just to make you feel good that you're on the right track. And then of course, as we mentioned before, we had used the Centauro dreams to secure our property, which was a huge stress relief as well, because we were able to not have that extra stress of trying to rent an apartment sight unseen. Yeah, and the whole like having a housing contract seems to be a massive choke point. Yes. Especially in Lisbon and Porto right now. It seems to be very difficult to find a good, reliable housing situation where you're not paying over the odds, although, oh man, many people seem to be paying over the odds anyways, but also making sure like you're not getting scammed because there are scams out there on the different sites, including on EV Alicia, which is the one that I think a lot of people go to. Yes. So how was your experience with Lusitano Dreams and using that service? I think it's been very positive for us. We started out by meeting with the owner of the company and we felt really good about that conversation. And we walked us through the process and the services they offer, which is a one year D7 compliant lease agreement, several properties to choose from, and all of the documentation that you need for the D7, as the year's lease, the filings that need to be made with the local tax offices, everything that was needed for that D7 package came to us put together already. And we simply took the package that they prepared for us and we put it, slipped that into our D7 application and that portion was done. There was some flexibility there. We really worked with the company to talk about what our D7 timeline was going to be, which informed our commencement date of our lease, which is extremely helpful. So you're not paying, we did not have to pay a long time before we got here. In fact, our lease commencement date and our D7 lined up very nicely. So like I said, we got lucky and then many people who did not line up and ended up paying for an empty apartment. And then somebody met us here with the keys as soon as we landed in Lisbon, somebody met us here with the keys, they'd been responsive and helpful. And I think we've had a very good experience with them. Nice. Do you feel like you're paying a premium for the service or do you feel like the pricing is correct in terms of what you get in value and return? You know, when we first looked at the product, I would have told you it seemed like a premium. Okay. But now that I'm here and seeing the prices, I actually think for the quality of the apartment we have, that it's not that much over what you would get on the market for this apartment. So I did think it was a premium, but now that I'm here and looking for myself, I no longer feel like we're paying a premium. Okay, yeah, yeah, right on. I mean, go ahead. And I would just add, oh, sorry. Yeah, I would just add, I think they've done a really good job stocking the apartment with things that we're used to in the US, at least like, I don't know, a standing desk and a printer that we might need for appointments. Yep. Even things like streaming services, like there's HBO and Netflix and all that kind of stuff. There's all the little things are there that make it a really easy transition, I feel like. We didn't have to set up internet, we didn't have to set up any of that stuff. We just kind of walked in and everything's working. So that was a huge help as well. Amazing. Well, that does definitely sound like a soft landing, which maybe in four months time, whenever you all do move, your Portuguese will be even better. Your kind of understanding of the way things work here or don't work will be better. And then you'll be more ready to tackle getting internet, getting a TV service set up and those other things that you didn't have to do yet. So that's great. And we'll be physically here to do those things. Yeah, which is always really helpful. Because I think some people arrive and they don't have things set up and then you just get overwhelmed with that kind of checklist of things that you have to do to make life work. Getting the hot water turned on. We've heard of people moving here where they don't have hot water for the first week or two. I couldn't imagine. Yeah, it's rough. You first move to a place and you can't quite feel normal until all of those little things that we don't really, that we take for granted, let's say, aren't dealt with. So you flew over here from California, you arrived, you had this soft landing. What was kind of happening emotionally the first week that you were here? Was life easy? Was everything, or did you have any challenges? It seems like it was easy. For me, I just had to keep reminding myself that I'm not on vacation. This is not another trip to Portugal. Yeah, it was very surreal, absolutely. But I think we've been preparing emotionally for this for a long time. We've been looking forward to this and looking forward to reinventing ourselves in a new city, in a new country, and with a new life for some time now. And so I think it's more excitement than anything else. How did you prepare emotionally? Well, I think a big part of it for me, and this may be very unique to me, is that I was lucky enough to be able to retire from my job months before we left, and focus my time on shedding our US possessions, everything we owned, we got rid of. We came with suitcases only. We didn't bring any furniture or anything. Way to do it. Any electronics, except for our computers. And so that gave me a chance to do that. That physical shedding of things was hugely cathartic. And since we were still, when we started this process, we had already sold our house, our car, and we were living with family. As we got ready for the move, I literally sold everything a piece at a time on Facebook Marketplace or other websites like that. Which is very time consuming, but very cathartic to let go of that life. All these things are going, and we're gonna start again somewhere else. That was very helpful for me. And Nick, how about you? Yeah, I think there's a couple of ways that made the transition easier. I would say one of them was that we had, let's see, maybe about three years ago, kind of during the pandemic, we were living kind of in a very, kind of in Airbnbs for a month at a time, and being a bit nomadic. So we were in San Diego for a month, and then Santa Barbara for a month. So carrying around all of our possessions, minimal possessions, that combined with doing the two trips, two research trips, I think really helped. One was just the quick two week trip all around Portugal as an initial, like, do we wanna do this at all? And then the second time we stayed for a month, and we're like, let's just pretend like we're living here now. And we found our local grocery store, and we basically just pretended like, okay, what would life be like as much as possible? And so when we arrived here, it kind of felt like we'd done this before, because we had prepared in that way. So you would recommend people that do scouting trips, because there's a lot of people that do come over and do scouting trips to kind of have that mindset of, let's role play a bit and make pretend that we're actually living here as opposed to going through the motions as a tourist and doing the touristy stuff. Oh, absolutely. Cook at home, find a local grocery store, and if at all possible, stay for a decent amount of time. You know, the last trip we made, it was five weeks, and we were lucky that Nick's company was open to that arrangement. But we had to stay for five weeks, and a month of that we spent in Porto. And by the time we left, we had some favorite restaurants, we had our favorite coffee shop, we had a routine going that felt like, it started to feel a little bit like home. And we'd even met a few people in Porto. We even had, the gun day, started making friends with them that first month. And yeah, I think that was, if you can come and stay for a amount of time where you're not just counting the days that you have to go back to the United States, that made a world of difference for us. So if you can stay a month, I say come and stay a month. Okay. And for me, I think too, there's a lot of unknowns when you're moving, even just moving within the country you're used to living in. But when you're moving abroad, there's so many unknowns. And to kind of have already practiced in a way, removes a lot of those unknowns. And so for me, it was a lot less stressful because I kind of knew what to expect in a lot of different respects. Right on. That is amazing. You guys are like seasoned pros. Yeah. I'll tell you what. Okay. You brought up two really interesting things, but I'm gonna take the conversation in the direction of Lisbon versus Porto. What tipped the scales in Lisbon's favor? But I think I know, and I'm just gonna go ahead and put it out there for the listener. Listener, here's what I think they're gonna say. It's the proximity to that airport in Lisbon so they could travel to other places in Europe. David, Nick, why Lisbon over Porto? You know, I wouldn't say that long-term that has been decided. Okay. Yeah, we decided to start- Porto can still win you over. Oh, absolutely. We love Porto. Let's go. We had a wonderful time there. And I think Lisbon obviously has a larger airport, but also we felt like it was a little bit of a softer landing for us in that my Portuguese isn't great yet. And as we've already talked about, a lot of people in Lisbon speak English, which is true of Porto. But we felt like if we were going in to do our driver's license or swap or any of these functions we have to do, even our SDF appointments, which we didn't know at that point would be together, we're at the same location. Sure. We might have better luck with government offices if I was in a place where I could reliably assume that there was gonna be somebody in the room who could help me in English. So language was a big part of it. But also, Lisbon is very similar. Also, Lisbon is very similar to San Francisco, which is where I spent almost 20 years in California. And not just in climate and a little bit in culture, but San Francisco for a small city by US standards is a bustling city. There's restaurants and there's coffee shops and there's cultural activities and there's always something going on in San Francisco. And so we felt like Lisbon might be a little more, we need a little bit more into that San Francisco vibe and we could start there. But it would not surprise me at all to see us in Porto in six months or nine months or next year. Because we did love that part time there. Okay, Nick. Yeah, there's definitely pros and cons and we've been kind of debating between us just back and forth like, well, should we try Porto again? There's so many things. Like in Porto, I think we like the weather more, even it being colder and whatnot, that kind of reminds us of San Francisco, the proximity to the Douro Valley, we enjoyed visiting that region as well. So I think there is definitely a good chance we may make it back to Porto. It's another thing that I think is one reason why I keep considering Lisbon is just the amount of meetup groups for networking and things like that. It does seem like there are more events related to those things in Lisbon. Just when I did like a cursory glance at the numbers, but I mean, the train, we've taken the train from Porto to Lisbon a few times and I think it's what, like three hours? So it's not too bad, I think, if you need to make it to the other city. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, so before we talk about kind of meetups and making friends, I do wanna give you all a bit of advice and this is advice to the listener as well. Before you decide on what football club to support, figure out where you're gonna live for the next several years, because it can be very awkward if you guys are living in Benfica, Benfica is one of the top three teams in the country and if you move from there and come up here, you don't wanna be a Benfica fan. You really don't. You wanna support one of the local clubs, you probably really wanted to support FC Porto, but then it can be awkward if you're an FC Porto supporter and then you decide to go back to Lisbon. We've already bought all the, we've got all of our stuff. You've got the gear, you're a socio for FC Porto, you're a paying member and you've had your season ticket and you've posted stuff on Facebook or Instagram. The Benficistas will find you and it'll be a bit like Liam Neeson attacking an abductor. So, okay, let's talk about. We'll definitely take that advice to heart. Absolutely. That is something where. Go to matches and wear white or black, be neutral. Or actually, you can wear the colors of the home team. That's fine. Go to a few matches, see what club fits you best. But whether you're into sports or not, I definitely recommend people that move here to check out a European football match and see what it's like and see if you can get into it because it is definitely a way of life in Portugal, for sure. Between football and politics, that's like all that's on TV, I think. Yes, I've noticed in both the newspapers and on the online Portuguese news sites that sports is the top story. Yeah. Whether it's a championship game or not, it's still the top story. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Okay, so you're talking about meetups and you're talking about being able to connect with people. How have you all found that? This is one of my biggest fears. Oh, sorry, go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, well, we actually had a great experience when we were in Porto last year. We went to one of the Expats Everywhere meetups and had a great time there. So that kind of taught us that it's possible to meet friends and people and it's not too hard. That was one of the worries I had about moving abroad was like, what will my social network be like and will I be able to start making friends? Yeah. So that helped put my mind at ease for that part. I was like, okay, it's not gonna be too hard. Yeah. I think it's harder to make friends as an adult. We're so used to making friends when you're in school because you're with these people all day or college. So it gets a little harder as adults, but that was one of the wonderful things. We went to the Expats Everywhere meetup in Porto last summer and met a couple there, another couple there who had relocated from the West Coast to Porto. And a few days later, they invited us out for a glass of wine just in, it's around the corner. They happen to live close by where we are. We'll talk about the experience. We'll talk about the move. Yeah. Answer any questions you have, which we thought was really nice. And so we met them at a little restaurant around the corner from our house. Turns out they, from our Airbnb, turns out their house is right around the corner there as well. Sweet. So we were neighbors and didn't even know it. And after we had a glass of wine and talked well, they said, well, have you had dinner? Why don't we just stay for dinner? And so we stayed and had dinner and talked. And then we all walked home together because they lived right around the corner from us. And by the time we got inside to our Airbnb that night, we realized that had been a five hour dinner. And we just loved that. That was like, that does not happen in the United States. That was a wonderful, like, welcome to Porto. Oh, that's awesome. And you know, that's one of the things I love about Porto, not that it doesn't happen in Lisbon. I'm sure it does. But it's a Portugal thing for sure that you make these connections and you're afforded the time to slow down and have a five hour dinner. Yeah, totally. Do you remember what meetup you came to of ours? Like, where was the venue? It was a rooftop bar in the summer. I'm thinking about, yeah. On top of one of the malls. Yeah, that venue's closed down because the mall has been bought out by a big company that's gonna change it. We don't know exactly what it's gonna be. But there's actually another cool rooftop bar that's adjacent to it. And for the listener, we have some meetups coming up so you can connect with us the way that Nick and David have. So the first one is gonna be a July 4th event that we're doing here in Porto. It's gonna be on the riverside. We'll put information down in the description section. And then we also have a really cool event that is gonna be in Lisbon on August 26th. And that event is at 6.30. We'll put the venue down in the description section because I can't remember what street it's on. It's at a cool hotel, Hotel Mundial, I believe is the name of it. They've got a rooftop bar up there. So when you said rooftop, it reminded me to let people know that we've got an event coming for that. So we'll be down in Lisbon for that. And we'll probably have another one up here in Porto during the summer as well. So hope to see you all down in Lisbon, actually. That'd be great. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely, yep, we are planning on it. Sweet, okay, good. So you're classically trained musicians. How have you found the music scene in Lisbon? We have not yet in this first month made it to a live concert yet. Okay. But since the, at the Quebecian, there's a wonderful concert series at the Quebecian Museum. And we got, they did basically did Beethoven's 9th Symphony and we were too slow in getting tickets for that. Of course, a major piece like that sold out right away. But because it was sold out, the Quebecian live streamed the event on YouTube. And so we're able to sit here at home and pour ourselves a glass of wine and a couple of pieces of cheese and kick back here on the couch and watch the live concert. So that was the only concert we've made it to so far. We're looking forward to getting to know more of the art scene here in Lisbon. Nice. What are some other things that you hope to tackle in the next, let's say three months while living in Lisbon? Ooh, I think we have a big list. We still need to get at least on the logistical side, probably private health insurance and yeah, our SNS number, driver's license, those types of things. But then more on the fun side, I think we want to do a few hikes. We want to do, force ourselves to go to the talho, the butcher and be able to order 300 grams of something. Yeah. Since we're not used to pounds versus kilograms and all that. So yeah, those are a few things at least. Nice. I think the one part of Portugal that we have not, we've touched a lot of things quickly. On our survey trip, but the one thing that we haven't explored at all is the Golden Coast. And we would love to be there at some point. So I want to take my apologies. The Silver Coast. There's one of those things that we can cut out. Just say it again. Okay. Yeah, we'd love to explore the Silver Coast just because we did not make it there. We did our survey of the country. We had something had to give. We only had a certain amount of time. And I would like to, the hikes, absolutely. But we are, so we're bikers. We lived in North Africa. So we're bikers when we lived in Northern California. We kind of missed that. We don't have bikes here yet. So that might be something we think about is, I think Lisbon's going to be a challenge with the bikes, but it'll be good. What do you mean? Because of the hills? Because of the hills, yes. I think it's going to be quite a challenge here. Okay. But if we survive San Francisco on bikes, we can survive Lisbon as well. So you're thinking biking as a mode of transportation versus like recreational biking, mountain biking? Recreational, yeah, both. I mean, recreational biking around the city is a wonderful way to get to know a city. When I first moved to San Francisco, I spent almost every weekend on my bike because that's the best way to get to know a city. You can cover more territory than you can on foot, but at the same time, you go slow enough to actually take in where you are and stop and explore. So I'd love to do a little biking again. Yeah, we also found, so when I first moved to San Francisco, I found at a bookstore this like 52 cards of walks in San Francisco. And so every weekend I would take one of those cards, do a walk in a different neighborhood and learn about that. And we were lucky enough, so we actually went to the book fair in Lisbon that was I think a few days ago. It's still going on. Still going on. And yeah, that was really fun. There's like probably a hundred stalls selling books, good food, but I actually came across 52, another deck of cards for Lisbon walks. So that's definitely something we're gonna do probably every weekend from here on out. And go to a different neighborhood and see what it's all about. Nice, that's awesome. I love the symmetry there that you have, that you're able to do that in San Francisco. And a lot of people compare San Francisco and Lisbon, so you can do it in Lisbon. I think it's mainly the bridge, similar color. Because the weather, like you said, is more like Porto probably. Okay, so I know that you've been here for a month and it's probably a little early for this question, but we ask all of our guests this question. At ExpatSetware, we believe that living abroad transforms lives. How has living abroad, even in this past month, transformed your life? I think I can go first. Even just the month that we've been here, I've already noticed a huge difference in stress levels. I feel calmer, the pace of life is much more suited to what I'm looking for. And a lot of the things that Portugal offers aligns with what is important to me and my preferences. And because of that alignment, I'm able to just, I feel like I'm able to enjoy the city and enjoy what I'm doing a lot more because of it. Cool. Yeah, I think similarly, I've had several opportunities in my life where I've had major events that allow me to kind of reinvent who I am and what I'm doing in life and moving from Texas to California and things like this where I've had an opportunity to reinvent myself. And so I think what I would say right now as I'm in this last month is I am hopeful and excited in a way that I haven't been for several years before the move. So has it transformed me yet? Well, maybe not, maybe we're too new to say that. This has been a transformative experience for me, but I'm certainly excited and hopeful in a way that I haven't been in a long time. So what I'm hearing is we need to check back in on you in like six months to a year and catch that answer. Yeah, sounds good. Absolutely. All right, well, thank you both so much for spending the past 45 minutes with us. We appreciate it and we hope to see you down in Lisbon in August. Sound good? We're looking forward to it. Awesome. Thank you so much. I think we've gotten so much from expats everywhere and it's, yeah, all of the resources that we've gotten by watching your videos and everything has helped us tremendously. So we can't thank you enough. Man, Nick, we really appreciate hearing that. We, yeah, we do this cause we wanna help people change, like change their life. And how much we know that living abroad changes lives, we want people to experience that. And if we can make it easier for people to do that in our content, that's the goal. So thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it, truly. All right, thank you.